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Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Anonymous
1/27/2006  6:35:00 AM
actually the foot timing with respect to the body is wrong - it is over eager
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Dave
1/27/2006  7:02:00 AM
IT,s hard to demonstrate a feather without first warming up,neather can you get the same results when you dance a figure piece by piece. It can,t have the same fluid motion as when danced in a routine,the dancer is not able to dance light and shade. Please teach me to dance a feather step as demonstrated and I will be satisfied. Dave
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Dave Continued
1/27/2006  7:06:00 AM
Foxy . Thank you for bringing up the subject as Rha has introduced me to some new concept and a different way of lookin at the feather step.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by jerryblu
1/27/2006  4:21:00 PM
I am going to beg to differ. That is NOT a prep step. That 1st Slow occurs on the 1st beat of the measure, not on the &. The count I heard on the video clip was SSqqSSqq. That 2nd SSqq demonstrates that the full step includes two slows. If it were a prep step then you would have one slow before launching into SqqSqq, not SSqqSSqq.

Unless you do a slow prep step before each feather????

I see folks dancing SSQQ Foxtrot all the time, shuffling around the floor. Altho Jonathan has explained to me that that is American Bronze, I just dont like it and I dont think of it as American Bronze. I think of it as Arthur Murray Bronze. I was taught SqqSqq from the start (American style), and when I graduated to Silver I learned to pass feet.

Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Anonymous
1/27/2006  5:09:00 PM
Jerry, no offense but dancing SQQ foxtrot with foot closure is downright silly. SSQQ foxtrot does a much better job of building the skills needed for SQQ continuinty than SQQ foot closure would.

As for the prep step issue, you are obviously watching the american clips while everyone else is watching the new international foxtrot clips.

Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by jerryblu
1/27/2006  8:20:00 PM
1. No offense at all.

2. You are entirely correct; I was watching the american clips. Somehow, I thought that the discussion was focussing on them, not the Int'l. Sorry.

3. Maybe silly, but Sqq with foot closure was how I started my learning. I didnt do natural turns for a long time, only reverse turns. I couldnt figure out why they were called reverse and why the right turn was natural.

Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Anonymous
1/27/2006  5:27:00 PM
"The slow of the international foxtrot is the swing of the whole foot from it's back position to it's forward position"

Actually no. It is formally defined to be from the time that the feet pass to the time that the feet pass.

Count frames in the video. I get something like 1: 19 2: 23 3: 20

If the video is NTSC rate, that's 1 measure of a 29 mpm foxtrot - but are the proportions correct?
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Quickstep
1/27/2006  6:00:00 PM
Foxy.I hope we are dicussing the International Foxtrot, I know absolutely nothing of the American Style. With your count of 1234 is the 1.2. the Preperation Step, Which will have you taking the 1st of the Feather on 34. If a preperation Step is taken on the &. The count becomes & with the & coming from 4 The count is & 1234. I hope that this is not to confusing. Our aim is to get a Prep step which allows us to take off on 1.2. on the first of the Feather and not 3.4. So we Prep step on 3.4. Which can also be called 7.8.The problem now is after a Change of Direction if we take the 3rd step as described we will be stepping out of phrase with the music as it is being played today.. Just my thoughts but years ago the music was not recorded as it is today. Today it is easy to pick up a count of 5678, if we use 78 as the Prep Step then we have 1.2. free for our Feather. Just to throw more fat on the fire. Look at the Tango. It is supposed to be 2/4 tempo. You are more likely to run into a 4/4 tempo.Just pick one step , a Four Step If you do it to 2/4 its fine. If you do a Four Step to 4/4 you will be out of time with the music. So they now do a Five Step instead. One of our leading teachers whilst in Europe acually asked one of the big orchestra leaders why 4/4. The answer was the buying public did not like 4/4. In fact they had to recall a disc and take out the 2/4 Tango and replace it with a 4/4. Just remembering that they are selling to others as well as ballroom dancers.. >
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Anonymous
1/27/2006  6:25:00 PM
It's so funny when dancers who've never played in a dance orchestra toss around time signatures ignorantly.

Music has many units. Always has, always will. Sometimes they are easier to hear than others, some are better at hearing them than others. Some dancers are bothered if their dancing doesn't fit the units, others are not.

Those that care either use the wrong amount of time per figure to force fit them (beginners) or use the right timings, and select a combination of figures that fit the music as a group, even if they may have a syncopated relationship to it at some instants - then dance in a way that makes the syncompation intentional and not unfortunate.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Waltz123
1/27/2006  9:03:00 PM
The foxtrot is a good demonstration of the step swing drift principle,but if you turn the sound off and count the timing you will come up with qqs and not sqq.
Really? I almost see more of a QSQ.

The most likely cause of this is the fact that we filmed these clips without music. When there's no music playing, one tends to (or at least, *I* tended to) focus more on the movement than the timing. This was especially noticeable on a couple of the impetus clips that never made the cut, where we hovered way too long.

About half-way through day 1 of filming, we started noticing that there was a tendency (not just with us, but with everybody) for the narrater to follow rather than lead the dancers, so it was decided that it would be smarter to run a metronome in the background. This helped quite a bit. But Int'l Foxtrot was long over by then.

Now as to that silly generalization about dancers in the U.S.A... I should point out that my standard teacher, who was born, raised, and trained in the UK, was there to supervise our dancing on the day of the shoot. So any mistakes I may have made, or shortcomings in my dancing in general (and I'm sure there are plenty) are either the result of English training, or were simply missed on the day of the shoot. You decide.


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