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Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/18/2006  6:45:00 AM
"Anonymous. Your weight is leaving the rear foot. You don't agree with picture three so we leave it out.The next move is four. How would you get your weight in front of the front foot"

By dancing picture TWO without moving my front foot so far yet. The weight is in front of both feet at the beginning of the action, not at the end. You keep trying to jump to the end (picture FOUR) and pretend like it is the beginning.

"we wont even bother about the knee, which will have to be over the toe to a point of imbalance and stay verticle and then to fall or catch the weight without leaning forward."

The knee is not over the toe, it is in front of the to. And the body is perfectly aligned over the knee, with no leaning of the body, only an incline of the shin - if you still can't see that in picture two YOU ARE BLIND.

"To say imbalance is to be either leaning forward or backward."

ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Imbalance describes only the position of the center of mass relative to the supporting feet. It says nothing about the body orientation. Most imbalanced positions critical to dancing, like that shown in PICTURE TWO maintain VERTICAL ALIGNMENT of the body.

You've been fighting that idea so long that it is clearly not a failure to understand, but a willfill intent to pretened that you are stupid. The evidence is in front of your eyes - if you had any interest in learning, you would have now admitted that, regardless if it is a way you wish to dance or not, it is at least POSSIBLE.

"To catch the weight means like the feet are trapped and the body is falling ahead of its point of balance."

Catching the weight is a key skill taught by all good teachers. The feet would remain trapped only so long as their knees do not bend to let them move through - so the feet do not remain trapped. Falling ahead of the point of balance is precisely the GOAL - it is how humans have been walking ever since we came down from the trees.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/19/2006  1:53:00 AM
Anonymous. We do not need to think when we walk, If we did have to think which is the leg , foot we would concentrate on. If you say the front foot you belong back up that tree. So what is a walk. It is moving your foot forward to then pass your body over to that foot with the action coming from the back foot. ( the standing foot ).
Picture four is the end and the beginning. Picture one is a standing start. On four the knee is clearly ahead of te toe.
Lets go to picture one. If that were you you would be leaning forward to your point of imbalance.
I can see at no time is the body not verticle. Just like the car keys.
This I really believe. Sometime in the past you used to dance off a very flat foot. So your teacher said get your weight forward. They might have even given you a push in the back. I've seen that a few times. But this was for your eyes only. To get you off that back foot.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/19/2006  3:23:00 PM
"Anonymous. We do not need to think when we walk, If we did have to think"

Quite clearly your problem is exactly that you are thinking about dancing... and as a result, the proper projection of the body into imbalance - which is almost certainly present in your non dance walking - is missing from your dancing.

"So what is a walk. It is moving your foot forward to then pass your body over to that foot"

No, mr centipede, it is not. A walk is a sending your body off balance into movement, with the leg then swinging to arrive under or slightly ahead of the body just when it is needed. This has been known for well over a hundred years, ever since someone set up a movie camera and filmed it.

"I can see at no time is the body not verticle."

Exaclty - yet in picture TWO the body is clearly not balanced over the standing foot - it is entirely in front of the standing foot. Yet it is, as you just said yourself, vertical.

Off balance, but no leaning - imagine that!
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/19/2006  4:11:00 PM
Anonymous. How can you be off balanced if you are not leaning forward over your feet. If you are not leaning forward then you are not off balanced.
Everything you ever write is to try defend your belief that the body weight gets in front of the feet. What about when you step to the side. Do you still apply your theory of over balancing there also. How about the V. Waltz, or is that different.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/19/2006  5:21:00 PM
"Anonymous. How can you be off balanced if you are not leaning forward over your feet. If you are not leaning forward then you are not off balanced."

Simply by adopting the position CLEARLY SHOWN in PICTURE TWO of the forwad walk.

The evidence of how to do it is right under your nose.

The body is forward of the standing foot therefore it is off balance.

The body is vertically aligned, therefore it is not leaning.

Not very hard, was it?
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/20/2006  12:08:00 AM
Anonymous. You have got this crazy idea that unless we have two feet on the floor under our body we are not balanced. Why didn't you write it like that days ago. So that you could be corrected.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Quickstep
11/20/2006  2:45:00 AM
The original Torque thread is lost and has been torqued into oblivion. I can find no use of the word torque in the technique book. I do find the word twist when it said don't do it and that is just once.
To me torque means to turn one part of an object whilst keeping the rest still.
Twist is as a ball of wool or cotten is twisted which usually doesn't happen to a more solid object.
Turn is to turn about our own centre or part of. In Latin it is possible to turn around our own centre or around a centre between two bodies in otherwords we go around each other. In Modern we never do this. We do go around a common centre because the two centres become one
So who was the bright spark who intruduced the words torque and twist into Standard ballroom dancing..
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/20/2006  6:59:00 AM
"I do find the word twist when it said don't do it and that is just once."

I can't find the words "don't do it" or any negative recommendation in the book. What I do find is a recommendation to preferentially emphasize swing - but that is not in any way a prohibition of twist.

"In Latin it is possible to turn around our own centre or around a centre between two bodies in otherwords we go around each other. In Modern we never do this."

Your knowledge of modern is rather limited...

"We do go around a common centre because the two centres become one"

You are making the mistake of trying to combine the travel and the rotation into a single curved action. It doesn't work that way - you have travel, and you also have an indepent rotation superimposed on it. Unlike it the situation of an airplane flying through a slipstream, the rotation and travel of a dancer's body are not physically linked.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Quickstep
11/23/2006  1:16:00 AM
Anonymous. In the Samba we do go around our partners Circular Voltas man turns around the lady to the right, the lady goes leftwards. That is going around our partner which for obvious reasons can't be done in Standard..
On a forward part of any turning figure it is more important to feel a forward swing rather than a conscious twist of the body on the first step. It should be remembered that the first step is the strong step. and from the swing of this step it should be possible to take a wide second step.
You try that if you twist on the first step. Don't blame me . I didn't write the book. How does that affect your Double Reverse Spin.
I was the first to to try to explain what a common centre is. I said that the mans centre is his shirt buttons. The lady the blouse buttons. When we join together we form a different centre which is a common centre.
To get to the main point we do not twist our spine ever. That was the issue. We keep our spine straight not twisted. Go and see Alex.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/23/2006  7:53:00 AM
"In the Samba we do go around our partners Circular Voltas man turns around the lady to the right, the lady goes leftwards. That is going around our partner which for obvious reasons can't be done in Standard.."

Try fleckerels...

"On a forward part of any turning figure it is more important to feel a forward swing rather than a conscious twist of the body on the first step."

Which is a recomendation to priortize swing, but in no way at all any sort of prohibition of twist!

"You try that if you twist on the first step. Don't blame me ."

Do it all the time... works great, and it is precisely what the teacher asked for.

"How does that affect your Double Reverse Spin."

Already answered that for you... try rereading some of my previous answers to your repeated question.

"To get to the main point we do not twist our spine ever."

you won't be much of a dancer until you discover that we actually do, quite often...

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