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re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by weddingdance
2/15/2000  2:12:00 PM
Hi Everyone,
I just read this thread, very interesting! A few of my own comments:
A technique book is a good thing in the right hands. It is not written in stone, and different technique books can say different things. Also, it's open to interpretation.
I took vcalvin's comment of being a competitor but not having done a corta jaca as a humble statement, and 'dance boy' probably did too.
Should we talk about the difference between American style and International style Samba? I didn't see mentioned which version the original question was about.
Either way, Samba sure is a fun dance, isn't it? I watched people dancing it in Montreal last weekend, I was breathless at the end!
re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by vcalvin
2/15/2000  1:07:00 PM
You're welcome for the reply, Fred! I don't think there was anything wrong with your questions. This is, after all, a discussion forum, and the whole point is to share our views, opinions, experiences, etc. (for whatever those respective experiences are worth!) It would be nice if we could create new sections when threads go off-topic (as I am right now), but I don't see a way of doing that.

Dance boy, I hope you won't take offense when I say that it doesn't mean much to me that my being a competitor doesn't mean much to you I didn't mention my competitor status in order to impress anyone or to make myself out to be an "expert" of any kind -- I mentioned it to give context to my comments. And of course, you're free to take or leave those comments as you see fit, which is another great thing about discussion forums!

re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by Fred Bolder
2/15/2000  12:41:00 PM
Thank you both for the reply. I didn't know that there was a differents between the "1&2" and "1a2" notation. I think the "1e&a2e&a" method is perfect to describe the rhythm of the Samba. With this method you have info on the beat values and the start of the figure. We dance the Traveling Voltas like "Dance boy" describe (1a2a3a4). For the Corta Jaca we use the rhythm (a1a2). I believe that "Dance boy" is right that the figure I learn is not the original Corta Jaca, but just a variation. I agree with him that you should have a technical book. I have a book, but for the Corta Jaca I can only find SQQQQ. Is "12&3&" a good notation? Can you start the original figure with the Slow step on count 1? I agree that if everybody post this kind of questions, the forum could be messy, but I think in this case it's different. The Corta Jaca is a special figure of the Samba with a "strange" rhythm. In my opinion it's very interesting to talk about it. I have learned a lot from your answers. It is not always possible to ask your teacher. That why I think this forum is great. Perhaps the topics should split in more sections.

Thanks,

Fred

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re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by Dance boy
2/15/2000  2:26:00 AM
Well boy! Carol must be more confused at this point.
I posted my previous reply no because of the original question, but the incorrect response. I think everyone shall do his or her homework in the course of learning school figures. To have a copy of a technical book is essential for the learning process. This forum will be very messy if everyone posts this type of questions.
Not just timing, Fred's description on the foot work for Corta Jaca is not quite right yet. (Sorry, Fred. You're better check with your teacher to see whether you have been taught correctly.) It is perhaps caused by the difficulty of describing a dance on paper. It is not easy to put timing, beat value, foot position, foot work, action used, and body turn together in few words, even for someone who has been formally trained and knows the figure very well. What Carol asked is the base figure, no a variation.
The Samba timing is very confusing indeed. There are quite few of various combinations of timing and beat values for school figures. The figures REQUIRE to use various timing and beat values. That means you might not execute one figure properly if you don't use the required timing or beat value. Other the other hand, you do be able to use different timing and beat values for the same figure, which is called different style. Sure, you can dance the Travelling Voltas with QQQQQQS (beat values: 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1), rather than 1a2a3a4 timing. I, however, am not sure that is technical correct thought.
BTW, it doesn't mean much to me if someone says he or she has competed in a ballroom dancing competition. The reason is that people can go to a competition with just few months of learning, same for others with a few years of training, or with a few decade of training.
re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by Reyesuela
3/23/2000  11:32:00 PM
Well, Fred and Dance Boy are both right. In social dancing (which is what appears in almost all books), SQQQ, etc. is just fine. However, for competitive, the correct rhythm is 1 uh-2 uh-3 uh-4, etc. This basic 'uh' rhythm doesn't change in competitive dancing. That's straight from the #2 rhythm dancer in the US. Yes, he competes in the American style, but he knows latin as well and is fully qualified to coach it.
re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by vcalvin
2/14/2000  3:52:00 PM
A comment on attaching verbal counts to beat values -- Fred, I notice that you use the cadence "1 & 2" to refer to two different timings in samba (even though your posts indicate that you know the difference between the two timings).

When counting 1/4 beats (or sixteenth notes) aloud, I was taught in music lessons to say, "1e&a2e&a," and so on. If you apply this to the basic samba rhythm of 3/4 - 1/4 - 1, you would count "1 a2." This is distinctly different from "1 & 2," which would have the beat values of 1/2 - 1/2 - 1. Both of these timings *are* used in samba, so that's why I think it's important to be precise about how they're counted.

I compete in Latin, but frankly, I haven't danced the corta jaca! So, I won't venture to give any info on that particular figure. However, you also mention traveling voltas, and ask about the timing that others use for those. We most definitely use half beats (1&2) for those voltas, rather than the basic samba timing. I don't know if this is "compliant" with the syllabus, but it's not an uncommon practice. My experience has been that using half beats allows the voltas to travel more fluidly and permits more rhythm in the center. YMMV

Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by Fred Bolder
1/29/2000  5:56:00 AM
Hi Carol,

I have learned the Corta Jaca a month ago. The rhythm of this figure differs from the basic count wich is 1-and-2-1-and-2. The rhythm how we dance the Corta Jaca is and-1-and-2-and-3-and-4. The man places his left foot forward and stands on the heel. Replace weight to the right foot on count 1.
Then the man places his left foot back and stands on the toe. After that replace weight to the right foot while turning to the right 1/4 turn. Repeat everything once. This is how we dance it, but I think there are more variations. If you download my dance software wich is freeware (not shareware), you can see this figure as a part of the gold program. You will see animated feet on your computer screen. Look for the figure Samba-Gold. This is the url of my site. http://www.xs4all.nl/~fghb/ballroom.htm
I think Jonathan can give you a better explanation, but it is nice to see everything on your screen.

Kind regards,

Fred

------------------

[This message has been edited by Fred Bolder (edited 01-29-2000).]

re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by Steve
2/19/2000  7:46:00 AM
Hello everyone. Just joined your forum. As a teacher from good ol' Great Britain, I've been following your discussion about Samba and Corta Jac with interest. However, I'd like to clear up some misunderstandings about International style (I know nothing about American style).

First, there are accordoing to Laird, 8 cross rhythms in Samba. Figures that need a normal Samba bounce eg Samba Whisks are danced using a 1a2 timing.

Second, Corta Jaca is a completely flat and stationary figure (although it can rotate on the spot). It's danced with the timing of SQQQQQQQQQQ (10 quicks) not just 4.

Third, to complete the correct 4 bar phrasing another bar of music must be danced. This could be a further 4 quicks of Corta Jaca or another figure (or 1/2 figure) with or without using Samba bounce.

So, if you think you can dance Corta Jaca with Samba bounce try it. I think you will find it rather stange to do. Not only that, you will probably be all over the music!

re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by Dance boy
2/11/2000  5:56:00 PM
Check out some Latin Dancing books, you shall know the timing for Corta Jaca. It is SQQQQ. The beat values are 1, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2. It is not 1a2, 1a2, which beat values are 3/4, 1/4, 1, 3/4, 1/4, 1. This information is presented in Walter Laird's "Technique of Latin Dancing". Sorry Fred. You are not right.
re: Samba Corta Jaca
Posted by weddingdance
2/21/2000  9:50:00 AM
Steve,
I hope you join in on more discussions, your information was fabulous. Thank you!

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