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Re: Which is the highest
Posted by quickstep
1/21/2007  3:19:00 AM
Xtai. Go to the Learn the Dances section Choose Foxrot Feather Step and study.What do you think you see. If you have any tapes of an IDSF final , when they do the solo, study again having no pre-conceived ideas in your mind of how it is done. Believe your own eyes. You are right about the rear foot. It is the most seen for both the man and lady.Show a good leg line there which again if you know what to look for is right before your eyes.
One last thing. On a Feather Step the size of the steps cannot be the same. With CBMP on the third step it becomes a foot placement as does any Feather Finish.
About the height that the heel is from the floor in the Waltz and the Foxtrot. Again look in slow motion. What do you see from our better dancers. Is there a difference on the moving steps. That is steps where the feet pass.
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by Anonymous
1/21/2007  7:56:00 AM
"On a Feather Step the size of the steps cannot be the same. With CBMP on the third step it becomes a foot placement as does any Feather Finish."

Quickstep,

If you could ever bring yourself to let go of your own MISCONCEPTIONS and follow you OWN ADVICE and actually LOOK at video...

You would discover that in fact the third step is essentially the SAME SIZE as the second.

This is possible because the third step is created not so much by the swing of hte leg across the body (which can be only moderate) but by the way in which the top dancers keep their entire body moving. The step relative to the body is moderate, but the step across the floor is HUGE, because it is the some of a moderate leg swing plus a quite full and continous movement of the entire body.

Beginners like you of course lack the ability to sustain body movement in that manner.
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by Xtal
1/21/2007  8:50:00 PM
Anonymous,

Thank you for your advice and knowledge, I will definitely take that into consideration. My training is definitely lacking in the sense that I don't get much outside training (i.e. coaches etc.), the stuff that I know, I only "know" because of studying tapes and manuals, the things my dance partner has taught me, and just common sense and what seems to work. My dance partner and I are the most advanced instructors at our studio and have only been teaching for a year to a year and a half. I do think we are doing well for ourselves though (considering all things. lol).

Quickstep,
Please understand that my already conceived notion was something that I had already taken the time to sit and watch videos and study manuals, etc. for. BUT, I am not opposed to doing it again in chance that I've missed something.

Anyway, thank you both. If you have any more info you would like to share, I would appreciate it!
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by quickstep
1/22/2007  3:08:00 AM
Haven't you ever been told that we don't always take the same size step Take a big step and you will drag the lady into their next step. So lets go through a Feather Step. On the third step we have CBMP. We are on the outside of the lady on her right hip and she on ours. If we do anything other than a foot placement there she will have difficulty on her Heel Turn which for her the first step needs to be a big step. If we where to take a big step there ourselves. What does the lady do. Are you going to ask her to take a bigger step still. I seem to remember you giving a description of a Back Lock as a bowman drawing his bow. That's good. Now if this is a Feather step and you are going forward the same applies except the right foot is placed in CBMP. To take a big step you will most certainly OPEN YOUR STANCE, and as we all know that's not on is it. Just recently said on tape. If we twist our spine our shoulders will have difficulty following our body. I think this applies here also. From the way you wtite and have written I think you believe that the first one around the floor is the winner. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by Anonymous
1/22/2007  6:48:00 AM
"So lets go through a Feather Step. On the third step we have CBMP. We are on the outside of the lady on her right hip and she on ours. If we do anything other than a foot placement there she will have difficulty on her Heel Turn which for her the first step needs to be a big step. If we where to take a big step there ourselves. What does the lady do."


Quickstep, once more we must review this, because you SIMPLY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION when you read.

The step is not big because the man takes a big step. Instead, it is big because, during the time when he takes a merely moderate swing of his leg (and she takes a merely moderate swing of her leg) both bodies continue to move a large distance over the floor. This moderate leg swing, added onto a large body travel, creates a large step.

If both partners do not yet have the strenght and skill to sustain movement of the body throughout the step, then yes of course it will need to be small. And the dancing will also look halting and unpleasant. Remember the second step moves, and the next first step will move. To have the third step not continue movement would break the flow! But until both dancers develop the skill to sustain movement, that is what will happen.

"To take a big step you will most certainly OPEN YOUR STANCE,"

Only if you make the mistake of trying to do it by swining your leg. You can't go big by swinging your leg on and outside partner step, because there isn't room to swing it without opening you stance. So instead, you must allow your body to move throughout the step, carrying your leg along. And during this, your leg will make a moderate swing that adds to your body movement, not a large one.

It's as if you were standing on an airport people mover and took a small step. As far as the partnership is concerned it is a small step. But as far as anyone standing still in the room is concerned, it's a big step that covered a lot of ground!



Are you going to ask her to take a bigger step still. I seem to remember you giving a description of a Back Lock as a bowman drawing his bow. That's good. Now if this is a Feather step and you are going forward the same applies except the right foot is placed in CBMP. To take a big step you will most certainly OPEN YOUR STANCE, and as we all know that's not on is it. Just recently said on tape. If we twist our spine our shoulders will have difficulty following our body. I think this applies here also. From the way you wtite and have written I think you believe that the first one around the floor is the winner. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by quickstep
1/22/2007  1:06:00 PM
Paragraph three and six appear to contradict each other don't you think.
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by Anonymous
1/22/2007  7:54:00 PM
"Paragraph three and six appear to contradict each other don't you think."

Only to someone who has not yet figured out that when the body is moving substantially across the floor, then a small step (relative to the body) can be a big step (relative to the floor)
Re: Which is the highest
Posted by quickstep
1/23/2007  3:19:00 PM
This has as usually gone from the original thread which was . Is there a difference in height of the heel off the floor between the Waltz and the Foxtrot.All we need to do is measure the angle of the foot in both.
45 degrees is the angle most mentioned.
Does that then become 35 degrees if it is a Foxtrot. Step two of a Reverse will do. All we need to do now is go and have a look.If we were to freeze frame both and compare would we be able to say which is which by the height of the heel from the floor. Interesting argument isn't it for those who like to wrestle with theory.
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