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Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by Anonymous
2/8/2007  7:09:00 AM
"Please explain 234.5."

I mean that the first step of a feather might land closest to beat two, the second step right on beat three, and the third step on "beat four and a half"

But that's still a crude approximation. Suffient to demonstrate that you are grossly wrong, but not nearly as accurate as the timings of actual dancers that you were given.

Until you stop thinking of trying to step on any beat other than beat three, you just will never understand the foxtrot...
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by quickstep
2/9/2007  3:17:00 AM
What is the use of music playing if we are not going to dance to it. You can change the steps all you wish but you cannot change the music which is playing.
Slow is the first step, two beats. the next two steps are quicks. If I want to alter the timing to all quicks. Then I must use one beat, a quick on the introduction. If anybody can think of another way. Then lets hear it.
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by GUEST
2/9/2007  6:21:00 AM
I understand your frustration while you are trying to learn the basic stuff. But as your dance progresses, you will learn it is possible playing with music.
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by Anonymous
2/9/2007  6:25:00 AM
"What is the use of music playing if we are not going to dance to it. You can change the steps all you wish but you cannot change the music which is playing.
Slow is the first step, two beats. the next two steps are quicks. If I want to alter the timing to all quicks. Then I must use one beat, a quick on the introduction. If anybody can think of another way. Then lets hear it."

Quickstep, you simply do not understand the dance called "foxtrot"

It is not a RHYTHM dance, in which stepping on beats is stressed. Instead, it is a BODY FLIGHT dance, where we honor the music by moving our body (NOT OUR FEET) in time with it.

To do this, to fully reflect the trend of the music, we need a continuity of motion that is simply incompatible with placing the second quick on a beat.

WHICH IS WHY NOBODY PLACES THE SECOND QUICK ON BEAT FOUR. To put it there would NOT BE MUSICAL - it would reveal an obsession with feet that betrays an ignorance of the nature of this family of dances - which ARE NOT ABOUT THE FEET.
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by Guest
2/9/2007  7:56:00 AM
Well-said!
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by quickstep
2/9/2007  12:31:00 PM
That doesn't answer the question. If I arrive late on my second quick. What timing will I use on my Reverse Turn, The music is playing 1234 in that order. In a bar of 4/4 music we have four beats. You or nobody else can make it five or three..
If a competitor did wish to hold that third step and alter the timing.If this was to be followed by an Open Telemark they would syncopate the Telemark to, two and three, to come back to normal timing.
If they did continued to dance losing one beat they wouldn't get a mark from any judge.
This I think has something to do with it. Harry Smith - Hampshire wrote on Dancesport UK He asked.And I quote.
On the basics and finer points of foot technique. The footwork of the Man's 3rd step of a Foxtrot Feather Step is given as TH. in the technique books. Describe the exact positioning of the moving leg at the moment that the Heel of the supporting leg should touches the floor. I would add to that. Also give me the timing.
To continue. If every fad was to make its way into the technique book it would be chaos to say the least, and you could throw the technique books into the rubbish bin.
Does that make sense to all of you who aspire to be Technique Book rewritters.
Can you imagine writting that third step. As not being on beat 4 or beat 1 but somewhere in between. Show my how you would convey to a student that in a Technique Book.
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by Anonymous
2/9/2007  1:52:00 PM
"That doesn't answer the question. If I arrive late on my second quick. What timing will I use on my Reverse Turn, The music is playing 1234 in that order. In a bar of 4/4 music we have four beats. You or nobody else can make it five or three.."

You still are not understanding the dance.

Nobody is trying to make the bar of music any number of beats other than 4.

But what you are missing is that we are not trying to fit each figure into a bar of music. Instead, we are dancing it over a time equivelent to four beats of music, but a time of four beats THAT DOES NOT ALIGN WITH ANY BAR OF MUSIC OR EVEN ANY FOUR NUMBERED BEATS.

The timing of the reverse turn was, in my measurments, the same as the timing of the feather. Which is to say that the first step landed just before beat two, the second step landed on beat three* and the third step landed in between beats four and one.

*By on beat three, I mean that I used this as the reference point. Everyone thinks the first quick should go there, Quickstep and myself included, so I defined it to be on beat three, and used that to establish the relationship between the music and the movement in order to determine where the other two steps fall.

"If a competitor did wish to hold that third step and alter the timing.If this was to be followed by an Open Telemark they would syncopate the Telemark to, two and three, to come back to normal timing."

No - because they already are dancing "normal timing" by being what you consider "late". The fact you are going to have to face up to sooner or later is that this is the accepted way that foxtrot is danced. Perhaps if going into a bunch of quicks in a weave the timing would shift to land those repeated steps on the beats, but not for SQQ figues as this "late" timing is the ACCEPTED WAY TO DANCE SQQ FIGURES.

"Does that make sense to all of you who aspire to be Technique Book rewritters.
Can you imagine writting that third step. As not being on beat 4 or beat 1 but somewhere in between. Show my how you would convey to a student that in a Technique Book."

I don't aspire to rewrite the technique book. This whole subject does not actaully need discussion if it had been left well enough alone. The only reason we have to put a lot of effort into specifying exactly where the third step falls is becasue you felt called to SPREAD ERRONEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT IT. In terms of learning dancing, it would be much better to concentrate on the action, and try to align the first quick with beat three but not align any other footstep - because FOXTROT IS NOT ABOUT FOOT TIMING. Since you unwisely chose to argue for aligning the second quick - a SEVERE ERROR THAT WILL KILL THE NATURE OF FOXTROT - it now becomes necessary to point out PRECISELY WHY YOU ARE WRONG.

It's definitely a case where NOT TALKING ABOUT IT WOULD BE MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN GIVING OUT WRONG INFORMATION. But once wrong information has beeen given out, IT MUST BE SPECIFICALLY CORRECTED.
no subject
Posted by tangotime
7/2/2007  11:18:00 PM
All should remember-- The techn. books are there, purely as a guide . Their purpose for being, was to bring a commonality to teaching.

As scrivener remarked -- there can not be any exact technique ( paraphrase )

in essence, meaning some techn. may change , to suit a circumstance .
He also remarked about f/t- " you can be off the " slows "-- but only a fool would be off the Quicks "
no subject
Posted by Serendipidy
7/3/2007  5:28:00 PM
Tangotime.I'm pretty sure that it was Len who told us to get those two quicks right on the button and let the slows look after themselves. More recently Pat Thomson said . This couple sometimes miss that second quick. They should hit that crotchet right on the black dot.
no subject
Posted by anymouse
7/3/2007  6:58:00 PM
Quickstep, pretending to be "serendipity" wrote:

"Tangotime.I'm pretty sure that it was Len who told us to get those two quicks right on the button and let the slows look after themselves. More recently Pat Thomson said . This couple sometimes miss that second quick. They should hit that crotchet right on the black dot."

Hey quickstep, why are you always inventing new aliases? Could it be that you've destroyed the credibility of your old name so now you start over with "serendipity" ???

Anyway, your advice is wrong as ever on the subject of foxtrot timing:

http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Message_Board/view_messages.asp?MsgID=23818

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