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Re: Jonathan’s previous comment on foxtrot timing
Posted by quickstep
2/8/2007  3:30:00 PM
With all that writting you haven't mentioned that the RF. has further to travell than the LF on a Feather.Could it be that is why Billy Irvine teaches and beleives the first quick is accentuated. Is it possible he wants the second quick on the beat. Get the calculator out.
To add a bit more. If we beleive that Len Scrivener was correct and that after the the first quick we are on the way down for the third. There we have a step that has sliced timing by a fraction away from the technique books. Interesting isn't it.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Waltz123
2/1/2006  12:37:00 AM
What makes you assume having your coach present at the recording insures that it represents any particular style?
That's not the point of having a coach present. As with many competitive couples who might have their coaches present at a compeition, it serves an important purpose, which has nothing to do with learning anything new.

If you've ever been a competitor, you're probably aware of the tremendous effect having a coach present can have on your performance, whether it be last minute quick observations and reminders, or simply moral support and cheerleading. Turns out the same is true of a recorded video performance.

It almost seems as though our friend Anonymous is implying that I simply hired this coach once on a single occasion for a cramming session on the day of the shoot. Obviously the quality would not have been anywhere near what it was if that were the case. Throughout the last decade, we've put thousands of hours of practice and coaching lessons into our Int'l style, a large percentage of which happens to be from European coaches.

But that's not the point. Although there's still plenty of room for improvement in our dancing, "English" has nothing to do with it. That's something that Anonymous tries to inject into every criticism of our dancing to make it seem more valid. That's ironic for someone whose fundamental philosophy is to let the substance of the argument speak for itself. Take away his ability to make any references to England or America, force him to speak purely to the technique -- what's good about the dancing, what needs improving, etc -- and I'd be willing to bet he'd have something very meaningful to contribute. Actually, I think he did, a little bit... Unfortunately, it was buried beneath the rest of the patriotic rhetoric.

So...

Would anyone care to engage in a discussion of the Foxtrot clips that doesn't involve our American-ness?

Regards,
Jonathan
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by cdroge
2/1/2006  4:10:00 AM
Johnathan. Thank you for showing light as to how you vidio taped the international foxtrot,it was also nice to know that my eyes did not decieve me into thinking and feeling that we lower on the first beat in basic slow foxtrot. I was not aware that this was the modern way as I hve been dancing it that way for some time. Keep up the good work. By the way I am British not that it means anything. I guess we Limeys like to blow our own horns just as much as the Yanks. Dave
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Anonymous
2/1/2006  5:39:00 AM
Jonathan, you gotta stop moving your feet before you body or you will always be identified as American or European in style and not English
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by Anonymous
2/1/2006  5:41:00 AM
In terms of having the coach present, if he wasn't able to communicate this concept in the past, then having him present on the day of the shoot is not likely to fundamentally change anything. The dancing displayed remains what you are comfortable with - higher or lower in quality due to day-of factors, but fundamentally your style. Which is not the Slow English Foxtrot.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by cdroge
2/1/2006  6:22:00 AM
Anon. I should,will point out that the Italians have been beating the pants of the Brits for a while now. It seems to me that the Brits can't think out of the box when it comes to dancing, but then I'm just a Brit.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by suomynona
2/1/2006  7:19:00 AM
"Anon. I should,will point out that the Italians have been beating the pants of the Brits for a while now. It seems to me that the Brits can't think out of the box when it comes to dancing, but then I'm just a Brit. "

- Some of the italians dance more classically british than some of the brits. The color of your passport doesn't matter, who you study with does.

- Sometimes the judges, even at Blackpool, have to pick a couple that does not use the classic technique because they are simply doing a better job than the couples who are.

- For the classic techniques to produce a result that is better to all eyes, you have to get everything else nearly right too. However if you look at stills or have really good eyes for watching live dancing, you can easily see the distortions caused by some popular deviations from the classic technique, such as this eager feet trend.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by cdroge
2/1/2006  1:02:00 PM
Suomy, I have had eager feet for years but after reading that the feet move twice as fast as the body I have been giving my legs time to move (lazy legs). I am amazed at how much I have to slow the body down to do that,but the quality of our dancing has improved considerably and we are hardly working
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by suomynona
2/1/2006  1:52:00 PM
"Suomy, I have had eager feet for years but after reading that the feet move twice as fast as the body I have been giving my legs time to move (lazy legs). I am amazed at how much I have to slow the body down to do that,but the quality of our dancing has improved considerably and we are hardly working "

If you are doing what it sounds like your goal is backwards. Unfortunately there are few teachers who really understand this, but the body is always ahead of the legs in the movement. The legs have to move twice as fast (or maybe faster) because they are always behind and trying to catch up. Many students do it the opposite way, they get their legs moving and then their body tries to catch up. Sadly the majority of teachers in the world are still dancing like students in this respect, so of course their students aren't going to get it right either.
Re: Foxtrot as displayed on this site
Posted by cdroge
2/2/2006  4:28:00 AM
Suomy. Our problem was a combination moving the body to quickly and reaching with the free leg in the mistaken believe that we had flight. The point is that the legs need enough time to work properly for example, in the third step of the fox RT to allow the foot to swing back from the knee rather than just trying to swing the whole leg as one unit from the hip. The secret of soft knees "I think" is to allow the lower leg to move the way it does when we walk? Obviously we can't slow the body down to the point where we have no flight and there are also obviouly times when the whole leg totaly relaxed(dangly) will swing from the hip as one unit.

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