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Re: How it has changed
Posted by Anonymous
3/26/2007  6:32:00 AM
"do not understand how the weight is not centralized at the extent of the walk. What about the side step? How much weight is carried into these steps? On any walk does the foot arrive into its position with the body weight over the foot?"

Generally, yes, - by the time the foot is placed, the body weight will already be ready to get on it.

"If so, does this mean the body stops moving until the other foot closes under the body?"

No, the body keeps moving - usually it projects beyond the standing foot a bit before the moving foot has closed.

Obviously the action in tango is rather different.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Quickstep.
3/26/2007  3:54:00 PM
Puzzled. It is interesting about the side step. This is what we are taught. When you step to the side you will be on both toes passing the weight from one foot to the other. At some point for a moment your wight will be split. One place in particular where it is often done wrong is between the first and second step of a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot. Also between four and five on the Reverse Turn. The mistake is being lazy, (or having never been told ), and coming off a flat foot. It is also taught that on the step to the side think of the leg as being a rod. On a Backward Walk I think all of us will agree with the technique book that the feet stay in contact with the floor man or lady.
So all we have under the microscope is one step forward. With the moving leg under the body say the right foot, The ball of the foot touches the floor untill it becomes a heel. The push is from the standing leg. The heel skims the floor and at the extent of the stride we will be on the front heel and on the ball of the rear foot. The heel of the left foot having left the floor. If anybody follows that they will not be wrong. None of this will happen if the weight of the body is allowed to go in front of the moving leg. Where this idea ever came from goodness knows. I would not want anybody to believe me on this last bit concerning the body weight. Go and look for yourself. There is enough right here on this site to look at and to prove.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Anonymous
3/27/2007  7:22:00 PM
"None of this will happen if the weight of the body is allowed to go in front of the moving leg. Where this idea ever came from goodness knows."

It is a PLAIN AND OBVIOUS FACT that in ordinary walking, as in the action of the swing dances, EACH STEP BEGINS WITH THE BODY GOING AHEAD OF THE LEGS. Then the moving leg starts moving under the advancing body. Eventually it may overtake the body by some amount.

BUT THE BODY GOES FIRST.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Anonymous
3/28/2007  5:16:00 PM
In the Technique book it very clearly says in three places in as many pages that from a stationary position the weight must be brought forward over the balls of the feet. Absolutely nothing is mentioned about getting the body ahead of the feet. Once we start walking thats it. The foot, it is calculated travels twice the speed of the body. As s soon as from a stationary position the weight moves over the ball of the foot the foot is off travelling twice the speed of the body. If you walk the way you discribe down the aisle in your local super market you would soon be followed by the Security.
Close your eyes, or anybody close your eyes. Imagine walking with your body going ahead of your feet.
If you are doing a Rumba Walk very definitely the foot freezes on beat two which is step one and the body continues to go to the point of imbalance and then is caught by the next step, by a foot that is travelling twice the speed of the body. If it didn't we would finish flat on our face.
But we are not doing Latin here. This is Standard.
When you say. EVENTUALLY the foot MAY overtake the body by some amount. That is to stupid for words.
Who flogged this information to you. It must have been a Dr.Good and his Travelling Medicine Show. Who then ran off laughing all the way to the bank.
When comencing a walk from a closed position the weight must always be brought forward over the Balls of the feet. That's right, we do it every day. But where did you get the idea that this happens at the end of the step onto the next step and from there on. Give me a discription from any technique book or DVD. Excluding DR. Good's. Also keep those feet in contact with the floor.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Anonymous
3/28/2007  5:29:00 PM
"In the Technique book it very clearly says in three places in as many pages that from a stationary position the weight must be brought forward over the balls of the feet. Absolutely nothing is mentioned about getting the body ahead of the feet."

Nothing is mentioned about not doing it either. Yet if you analyze how humans walk it is OBVIOUS THAT IT HAPPENS.

But before we get too distracted, the important thing is that the body weight project beyond the standing foot, INTO IMBALANCE. Usually the moving foot would take a while before it got ahead of the body, but as it's not supporting the body anyway, its position is less critical (unless of course it collides with the partner, as it rather easily can).

"If you walk the way you discribe down the aisle in your local super market you would soon be followed by the Security."

Who would be walking EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THEMSELVES. That is just the way HUMANS MOVE.

You really are going to have to read some of the literature on the subject of human locomotion... or continue in your idiotic denial.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Anonymous
3/28/2007  5:45:00 PM
To everyone who still believes we are balanced when we walk:

Look up the concept of the "zero moment point" or ZMP.

The constraint for walking is usually that the ZMP is within the footprint of the standing foot. It is NOT that the CENTER OF MASS is within the standing foortprint - in fact, it usually isn't.

We are not balanced when we walk, however, the net forces and desired accelerations do balance out - if they didn't we would move in an undesired direction, which of course is something neither healthy adults walking, nor skilled dancers dancing would tolerate. But both are OFF BALANCe more of the time than theya re on balance.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Quickstep
3/28/2007  9:21:00 PM
You are still not keeping you moving foot in contact with the floor are you. You are still walking in which we do lift our foot from the floor. With the foot off the floor you are on one leg literally on one leg and moving. We do not dance that way either going forward or backward.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Anonymous
3/28/2007  9:44:00 PM
"You are still not keeping you moving foot in contact with the floor are you."

On the contrary, I am.

The difference is that unlike you, I am aware that it usually doesn't make much difference. I can do pretty much the same thing when lifting up street shoes slightly to clear a bad dance surface.

"With the foot off the floor you are on one leg literally on one leg and moving. We do not dance that way either going forward or backward."

What you fail to understand is that WHEN YOU DANCE, YOU ARE ALSO ON ONLY ONE LEG AT A TIME. Even if we momentarily accept your mistaken argument about mid-stride, that dual support phase would only be a tiny fraction of the time. At any point when one foot is moving, you are obviously standing ONLY ON THE STATIONARY FOOT.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Quickstep.
3/29/2007  3:19:00 AM
look at the other posting. Dancing and Walking.
Re: How it has changed
Posted by Quickstep
3/29/2007  5:16:00 AM
To finaly get the last piece of evidence it is neccassary to find out what your belief is concerning a Backward Walk. According to you does either of the feet leave the floor. Yes or no.

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