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+ View Older Messages

Re: Flight the Body
Posted by sqq
4/5/2007  10:30:00 AM
Even if Anonymous does not believe there usually are acceleration and deceleration during every step.

When pushing with supporting foot the body accelerates and must accelerate to transfer weight from moving foot to pushing foot. When accelerating momentum increases.

When landing on a foot there is no pushing force but braking force which decelerates and must decelerate the mass of the body to transfer weight from moving foot to landing foot to get on the foot. When decelerating momentum decreases.

When the center of mass is in front of the pushing foot it is useful to accelerate any part of the body. When the center of mass is behind the landing foot it is useful to decelerate every part of the body.

“Early in the action, the body is projecting from the standing foot and the feet are still closed. The body is an equal distance in front of both feet.”

First the push accelerates the gravity point of the body. During acceleration inertia forces push the body backwards and support not to overbalance forward.

”Soon the moving foot is also moving, but still not caught up to the body. The body is closest to the moving foot.”
“Then the moving foot is directly under the moving body, and obviously closest.”
”Next the moving foot is slightly ahead of the body, which has by now project a long way ahead of the standing foot.”

It is useful to save the accelerating swing of the moving foot latest. Accelerating force of push decreases to the end of the push. When acceleration of the gravity point of the body ends it is useful to still have the mowing foot back to be able to swing the leg forward to use the last possible accelerating mass and inertia force to support the body backwards.

”Soon thereafter the moving foot stops moving, and the body starts getting closer to it again.”

When the moving foot stops and the push has ended there is no accelerating force if not lowering. The mass of the body will decelerate. When landing on the foot it is useful that every part of the body decelerates to produce inertia forces to push the mass of the body on the landing foot while momentum decreases. Again it is useful not to swing accelerating the moving foot forward but to save the swing and straightening of the knee to the end of the stride. If one immediately swings the mowing foot strongly accelerating forward towards the standing foot he would overbalance backwards.

At the times of Alex Moore they did not know inertia forces. Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Moment_Point knows.

Re: Flight the Body
Posted by Anonymous
4/5/2007  10:39:00 AM
":Dont talk rot.Page 13
In the Walk at the full extent of the stride the weight is divided equally for a moment between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot."

Yes - see it never says that the body is equidistant between the feet?

So stop trying to argue that this is proof that is should be.

In fact, the given description of front heel on the floor and back heel raised is proof that the body will be closer to the front foot!

"Take a special note of that last sentance and tell me how you can get your weight in front of the foot and do all of the above."

Its right in the passage, which to paraphrase from memory, says that at the commencement of the walk always feel that the body moves before the foot.

"If you would tell exactly which of the above extracts from the technique book pages 10 and 13 are not exactly as written. I will stand corrected."

Today you quoted correctly, but your quotes DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS. In fact, they support mine!!
Re: Flight the Body
Posted by Pimpernel
4/5/2007  6:35:00 PM
If the quotes support your argument then you must be doing your steps correctly. I, and yourself. and possibly millions of others believe that the body weight will be equally divided between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot. And that on a backward step the supporting heel will not lower untill the moving foot draws level. Is that right. How on earth are you going to get out of this one.
To S Q Q. Very nicely written . Others would do well to print that one and keep it as a reference, especially Anonymous. As has been written before. It is to some hard to come to grips with the fact that they have been taught wrong. I was taught wrong at the bronze level in Latin in the Rumba. But i was not silly enough not to change when i found out i had been taught by somebody who should not have been teaching Latin at all. Nothing was said about the Latin Motion. Nothing about straight locked knees when the technique called for it. In fact most of what was taught was worse than usless.
Re: Flight the Body
Posted by Anonymous
4/5/2007  9:41:00 PM
"I, and yourself. and possibly millions of others believe that the body weight will be equally divided between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot."

This is probably only true in the small sort of walk performed as an exercise. The more dynamic actions which becomes possible when the walk-like action is preceded and/or followed by a body swing tend, in my observation, to go to far for the weight to ever be split between feet.

"And that on a backward step the supporting heel will not lower untill the moving foot draws level."

This is true for some actions, but untrue for others. In many lowering actions for examply, it is appropriate for the foot to go flat before the other foot has closed to it. Not for the body weight to run away too soon, but just for the foot to go flat and the knee to start absorbing some of the lowering, before the feet have closed. In flatter actions, such as the textbook walk, the heel will lower closer to the time when the feet pass. Different situations require DIFFERENT DETAILS.

"To S Q Q. Very nicely written . Others would do well to print that one and keep it as a reference, especially Anonymous."

SQQ is right that the body can only be supported in the unbalanced positions by also driving to create a horizontal acceleration. However, there are two important points to keep in mind:

1) The body is not necessairly fully supported. Some of these actions involve a marked lowering of the body!

2) The pulsing of acceleration and deceleration that this explanation applies can not usually be seen to occur on each step. Instead, it occurs only over each cycle of steps. Note that we never take two identical steps in a row in the swing dances, generally we have a heel lead, an upswing onto a toe, and a downswing onto a toe that then flattens. There is no per-step pulsing, instead the pulsing of the heel lead step gets smoothly blended into what precedes and what follows it - it becomes a trend rather than a pulse. Even when we have two heel leads in a row in the three step, they aren't the same - one builds into the next. The cycle always spans several steps.

As has been written before. It is to some hard to come to grips with the fact that they have been taught wrong. I was taught wrong at the bronze level in Latin in the Rumba. But i was not silly enough not to change when i found out i had been taught by somebody who should not have been teaching Latin at all. Nothing was said about the Latin Motion. Nothing about straight locked knees when the technique called for it. In fact most of what was taught was worse than usless.
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