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Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Serendipidy
8/21/2007  4:06:00 PM
Dancing is two people dancing as one. If you roll from the heel to the ball and your partner rolls from the toe to the heel what could be more together than that.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by anymouse
8/21/2007  4:17:00 PM
"Dancing is two people dancing as one. If you roll from the heel to the ball and your partner rolls from the toe to the heel what could be more together than that."

Yes, there's two phases in the position of the weight - heel, then ball.

But the placement of the foot is almost whole foot - it's heel, directly followed by the ball of foot contacting the floor, some would even opinion immediately so.

Needless to say this is not symmetric with the backwards action - probably because our knees only bend in one direction.

And the fundamental principle remains: delaying your arrival will not give you the right timing, instead it will just give you an artifical stuck-between-feet interlude. To get the right timing you have to learn to draw out the end of the preceding step, especially when we have a lowering step preceding a heel lead, we have to not finish the lowering step too fast.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Serendipidy
8/21/2007  5:07:00 PM
Jwlinson. If you roll onto your foot it will be impossible not to flex the knee and have the weight arrive at any other time than the correct time.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by anymouse
8/21/2007  7:00:00 PM
"Jwlinson. If you roll onto your foot it will be impossible not to flex the knee and have the weight arrive at any other time than the correct time."

If that were true, leading a heel turn would be extremely difficult.

Come to think of it, many people have a lot of difficulty leading heel turns effectively enough that they can reliably get either a heel turn or a waltz type turn as fits their momentary whim.

Maybe they never learned that a heel turn lead basically consists of greatly reducing the flex of the arriving knee? Wheras you create a waltz-type turn by letting the knee flex normally as you arrive.

As for timing, if you've departed the previous step too early as most do during their beginner and intermediate years, no natural action during the arrival is going to fix that.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Serendipidy
8/22/2007  8:14:00 PM
With the music count 1 and 2 and 3 and. This is according to Richard Gleave on his tape. Analyse this. Doing it that way we have more time on the first step than we do on the second. In actual fact we have the same amount of time on one as we do on the other two steps. The closing of the foot being on an and count. Leaving all of the third beat to be at the highest and the lowest with the count of three and. John Wood also teaches this way. Who can argue with these two gentlemen.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Doug
8/24/2007  7:31:00 AM
Serendipady. If we close our feet on twoand we will have to much time left to rise and fall as we are already rising as we close the foot.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by anymouse
8/24/2007  9:32:00 AM
"Serendipady. If we close our feet on twoand we will have to much time left to rise and fall as we are already rising as we close the foot."

Closing the foot takes time. It might be proper to say that the closing would start on two and, but it won't finish until just a bit before three, assuming that you want to put weight on the now closed foot right on beat 3.

There's not much point to have a big gap between when the foot arrives closed and when it takes the weight.

And yes, the rise will be contuing througout all of this - the rise ends only after the weight has changed feet, as the foot change is itself part of the rise.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Serendipidy
8/24/2007  10:29:00 PM
Of course we continue rising . We never actually stop. Each part blends with the other. Which is as the technique book says in the Waltz. Commence to rise at the end of one. Continue to rise on two and three. lower at the end of three. You would be suprised how couples are doing the most intricate steps, but ask them to quote and explain those three sentences above and they can't. Then ask the same question on the Foxtrot Feather Step . And what is the difference between the two rise and falls in the Waltz and the Foxtrot.. I blame the teachers for not explaining this right at the beginning. That's providing they know themselves. In the studio i go to there would not be one person from the youngest to the eldest who could not answer and demonstrate all of the above. P.S. I lower on the and count, 3 and.
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Doug
8/25/2007  1:13:00 PM
The timing of the NT in waltz is not as simple as you make it seem. In the passing natural you have a foot position on three followed by a body position on the (and)' an equal spacing on all the beats and half beats,this is not the case with the NT which does not have a foot position on three as the foot is already in place so this gives you an extra half beat that has to be used up somewhere?
Re: Heel Leads
Posted by Serendipidy
8/25/2007  6:05:00 PM
Doug. First who said we are talking about a Natural Turn. Get the basic Closed Change right first. This is the most misunderstood part and that is at the end of the first step on the count of and, the foot, in this case, the LF is under the body , The right knee is flexed and it flexed as the weight of the body arrived over that standing leg. Now we are ready to swing onto step two. This is our second drive. Now do it wrong to prove a point. After the RF is in position swing the LF from behind out to the side for step two. Once upon a time that would have been the way it was taught. Not any more. Anybody who has been to a Andrew Sinkinson class will bear me out that he will have you lift that left leg completely from the floor after it arrives along side the RF. Put it down and from a bent right knee send the LF onto step two. We are still rising and will continue to rise on step three. Which when you think about it is not a step. Take my word for it I have seen a group of some fourty couples tranformed in a few minutes from a blunt 1 2 3 to 1 and 2 and 3 and . And do you know it is most likely on any DVD you may have on the Modern Waltz. Just take a closer look and also listen to the instructions.
Whilst i am on this subject. why are people so obsessed with the moving foot which is the one in front. The important foot is the one you are standing on soon to be the rear . Every tape I have Modern or Latin says dance from foot to foot. Do that and let the moving foot look after itself. If the heel lead isn't as good as it should be then let the teacher tell you. Ball flat in Latin. All of the about is as I have been insructed or told. Good luck when this technique is put into the Natural Turn.
One more most important thing is exactly at what time does the heel of the standing foot starts to leave the floor. Where is the moving foot at this time.

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