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Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by Serendipidy
3/29/2008  5:51:00 PM
Terence Did you notice that your writting is dated 3/26/08 and the one below 1/12/05. Was all that time abducted by aliens. Are we living in a time warp.
Never the less. Put one of those Posture Frames on to feel the correct stance for Modern Ballroom. They use them for Latin also. In the Jive it wouldn't interfere with what is called an A Frame Posture . The heads are closer than the feet and the arm at waist level completes the A Frame Posture. I saw an old movie in which the scene was an American Jiterbuging during the war in a forces club like Grovesnor Square in London. They were really bent forward at the waist. The knees appeared to be very permanently bent.
Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by terence2
3/30/2008  12:46:00 AM
The "time " is set independantly by the site.

As to J/ Bug-- you dont need to tell me-- I danced thru the war time period in the UK doing that,( as well as my B/Room ) , and competing in same on numerous occasions.

Many dance halls held weekly comps.

ALL styles of dance over the yrs have been modfied to gain social acceptance-- and do you honestly believe, because some one was performing in a specific manner, that makes it right ??.
You only have to look at the " pitch " in B / Room for empirical evidence .
Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by Serendipidy
3/30/2008  2:54:00 AM
Terence. I always thought that with the acrobatics that went with Jitterbug the stance had to be bent forward at the waist. When the lady flew onto the mans left side and without touching the floor to the right side and then through the legs and back again. Try that standing up straight.This is what I watched on a program on the cable which was about the time a travelling group of dark people were performing in clubs through the US. The films were as was and were not studio movies.. Todays Jive . I think it is always taught today that the weight is forward over the balls of the feet. Very rarely would the weight be anywhere else and the knees are not straight. Which is simular to Jitterbug.
Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by terence2
3/30/2008  3:37:00 AM
Now lets talk realism-- how many people have you seen of late in a public forum being flipped over some ones head ??

Again , modification took place --- if you really want to go back to the roots of dances, then we would have to abandon all and start again !.
Good technique sometimes has to supplant " style " as in the original .
Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by musselmant
6/11/2008  10:42:00 AM
Social lindy events I've attended show few people dancing Savoy style (leaning forward from the waist). Most people have upright posture. The main difference I have noticed is the spectrum of "up" feeling from Jive (way up), to West Coast Swing (mostly up), to Lindy (down into the ground feeling, not up like waltz). Since I first trained in Lindy I find dancing with Jive/Ballroom people very, very hard to lead. They don't seem grounded and don't follow well but seem to be trying to bounce up to the ceiling. I think dances with African roots (Argentine tango, salsa, lindy) direct energy down. The ballroom world seems to direct energy up no matter the dance.
Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by terence2
6/12/2008  4:27:00 AM
I take your point,, but heres something to consider...

many B/room "types" have never been exposed to anything other than the style they are using now .

I,ve had intern. style dancers attend my cuban style salsa classes, and they attempt to dance a natural top in the same style ( doesnt jell. )

heres the the upside.... good dancers , in some cases , will adapt to the moment , given a little time .
Re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by atats
1/12/2005  8:12:00 PM
Goastdancer do you know what your name really means and what American Indian nation(s) use that as a religious name, it means something of great honor and belief, not to diminish your self as a person, if you use this name you must also answer the call of a Gostdancer when it is put forth. A real Gost Dancer sent this.
PS THee Gost Dance religion is the only religion OUTLAWED by the USA.
Re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by tybaldt
4/25/2009  8:01:00 PM
As someone who teaches a bunch of swing and other dances, competitive and social, the 2 styles' differences probably come down to context. When I go to a lindy or wcs party, I'll do 1 dance all night to a variety of music. In this situation the dance tends to be relaxed with casual styling, and lots of room for improvisation.
That 1 swing dance has to be sweet, lyrical, fierce, playful, smooth, punchy, or sexy as the songs change.

When I got to a ballroom, country, or california mix dance, there's usually 1 or 2 dances which are developed and rich, and 6 or 8 other dances in which people know 3 moves.

They have a different dance for each emotion- the angry tango, the cheeky cha cha, the bouncy swing. The range of expression thus gets spread over several forms, which then become stereotyped. There's nothing more inherently sexy about qqs, but rumba is the one always done 'sexily' so everything is styled to enhance that.

Thus a 'Ballroom' swing is restricted to one emotion, and the styling is tweaked out to emphasize a certain look, with the other stylings reserved for other dances.

Also, the ballroom community groups swing with the Rhythm, or Latin dances. This means that the movement technique is more like cha cha and rumba- cuban/latin motion applies.

This is not true of the swing dances, be they on bent or straight legs.

Do charleston(from which swing descended) on the followers foot (back rock on right foot) and salsa/mambo. They have the same basic, but look and feel totally different. Charleston (and swing) swings the hips and legs over multiple steps, while salsa shifts the rib/hip relationship side to side on each step. Thus during the 8 beats/6 steps a charleston dancer will have 4 hip actions, while the street salsa dancer, or trained mambo dancer will have 6.

Social latin movement has been refined into cuban walks and latin walks, whereas the vernacular jazz age dancing (shorty george/boogie walks, duck walks, fish tail) is more like a modern runway model's walk- hips first, not chest.

Ballroom swing briefly incorporates this movement as chicken walks, but for the most part, it's a Rhythm dance.

WCS does cuban movement (digs and press lines) when grooving in place, but when traveling down the slot, it's more like a ballroom 'Swing' dance (foxtrot and quickstep were begun with the same music as lindy) with 1 hip action for 3 steps.
That's why swing teachers often say that we don't use our hips, when in fact we do- just not on every step like salsa or cha cha.
Re: re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by delightfuldance
5/22/2005  9:33:00 PM
I think that is a great answer. More yuppie or more relaxed. Delighted
Re: ECS - Ballroom vs. Non-Ballroom Style
Posted by Wisconsin
3/30/2010  6:36:00 AM
ECS is an artificial dance constructed by the Arthur Murray studio's to make swing dancing accessible to ballroom dancers.

It's straight six beat with no syncopations or anchors, so like most ballroom dances has little or no contact with the music.

In fact, as ECS is 6 beat it will always be 'off rhythm' because most music is phrased in 8 16 and 32 beat blocks.

A experienced Swing (WCS, Lindy) dancer (as opposed to a intl jive or ECS dancer) will lenghten, shorten, anchor and manipulate the elements of the dance so it always corresponds to the music.

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