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Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Serendipidy
4/14/2008  11:03:00 PM
Anonymous. A normal Quarter Turn starts facing diag to wall . If you follow the Quarter Turn to the Right with a Progressive Chasse you will finish facing diagonal to the wall. Hold that line for the Lock Step which is normally commenced and finished facing diagonal to the wall.
If you are using a Heel Pull for the man to finish facing diag to the centre. I think that would be a 1/2 turn wouldn't it.
What is most important for the person on the outside of the turn is that they will be on two toes as the left foot is placed to the side which is why the footwork on the first step is down as H.T. and the person on the inside of the turns footwork is not down as T.H.T.
The Heel Pull is so old- fashioned I think the only time it would be used is if it is to be followed by a Chasse Reverse Turn.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by anymouse
4/15/2008  6:39:00 AM
Serendipity, what exactly is your point?

You type in a bunch of well known trivia, completely unrelated to the subject at hand and in no way backing up your mistaken argument.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by anymouse
4/7/2008  7:59:00 AM
"But to turn your top half to a different angle to your bottom half by twisting your spine is not neccessary. "

To twist your spine to some degree by turning your hips and shoulders to somewhat different angles, actually will ultimately prove necessary in a variety of situtaions if one's dancing is going to advance beyond a beginner stage.

At what point a teacher chooses to introduce the concept, and what words they use to explain it will vary, but ultimately it is a necessary feature of fully skilled dancing. Some teachers may not even think of this for what it is, viewing the situation in a different light instead, but it's still present in their dancing.

Obstinately denying this simply proves the limitation of your education as a dancer.

In terms of physiology, no one with a shred of knowledge of the human skeleton would deny that it is constructed in a way that makes reasonable twist of the spine a motion readily available to us.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by anymouse
4/1/2008  12:02:00 PM
"If you can tell me exactly on a Feather Step for instance where there is a twist in the body"

It would be much more noticeable in a turning figure, as a difference in the rate at which different body parts turn.

And of course it's downright obvious in promenade.

It is easy to see how the mistake took place with some book readers.

Actually the mistake is your claim that the book tells you not to twist. In actuality it says no such thing! All it does is point out - quite correctly - that twist is not the dominant component in one particular situation.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Charlestonissippi
2/25/2008  2:38:00 PM
why is your name anonymous to begin with?
To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Quickstep
10/31/2006  5:57:00 PM
Hey you guy who are into physics. If I twist my spine on a dance step am I trying to go in two different directions at the same time. Am I signaling one thing to my partner plus another at the same time. Why not ask her.
What brought this to my attention was a comment made by one of the judges on our Dancing with the Stars who just happens to be a former World Finalist and at the present a Blackpool judge.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
10/31/2006  7:26:00 PM
"Hey you guy who are into physics."

Twisting the spine / around the spine should not be done not done to create torque!

It is done to keep the body shaped to the partner while moving both bodies in a direction which doesn't happen to match the seperation between the partner's centers.

"If I twist my spine on a dance step am I trying to go in two different directions at the same time."

No, but you are trying to shape in one direction (towards your partner) while moving both of you in another direction.

"Am I signaling one thing to my partner plus another at the same time."

Yes, but they don't overlap. You signal connection and you signal movement. The directions don't have to match - in most dance figures they can't.

Confusing your partner is not good of course. But twisting around your spine does not necessarily mean confusing your partner if you do the proper way. Indeed, it is a basic element that makes many of the linear movements in ballroom possible. Without it (watch the couples who refuse to ulitize it) you end up having to curve many things around each other, instead of simply moving together in the intended direction. Some finds those curves aestheticaly pleasing. Others have a use for curve now and then, but like to be able to dance the numerous straight line figures along the straight lines of progression as they have been written.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/1/2006  1:50:00 PM
Anonymous. To me it would seem that you aren't using CBMP correctly. That is the way I stay with my partner on those outside steps. I do not twist my spine nor is it necessary to twist my spine. Unless I want to visit the Physiotherapist.
CBMP. How many people think that they are performing CBMP. When what they do is only a poor CBM. Also the older a person is the worse it gets. Simple test, third step of the Feather. The second step is in place, shoulder leading. Put the right leg through which is a foot position only. Do it without twisting the spine. Then see how much easier it is to go into a Reverse.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by Anonymous
11/2/2006  6:17:00 AM
There are two sorts of twists - good ones and bad ones.

Bad twists occur when the topline is in the right orientation, but the hips are not. Failure to achieve a good outside partner CBMP position in the hips would be a prime example.

Good twists occur when the hips and top are both in the proper positions, but the reality of the figure means that those positions cannot match. Some examples would be promenade (though some of the masters will keep their hips remarkably parallel to their partner's throughout). Another example would be reverse CBM actions, in which both hips and shoulders have to rotate, but can't rotate at exactly the same time. The hip has to rotate first as the CBM step is initiated, but the topline cannot rotate until the later part of the step or the offset in the hold would be reversed.
Re: To Torque or not to Torque
Posted by phil.samways
11/2/2006  9:01:00 AM
I must say one thing - twisting the spine (ny which i mean rotating the shoulders on the verrtical axis)does not result in a visit to the physiotherapist. Not if it's done sensibly and with otherwise good posture (which would be the case with reasonably competent dancers). We do it all the time in our everyday life (twist the spine - NOT visit the physiotherapist!). Curving and twisting (as in reaching into the back of the car from the driver's seat)can of course be dangerous
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