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Attention to details.
Posted by Serendipidy
5/21/2008  4:51:00 PM
Who would like to give an opinion . In the International Foxtrot on the Reverse Turn. In the technique books there are 3/8 of a turn between 1 and 3. How much of that turn is made over the LF. Is most of the turn taken on the LF. Taking into consideration that the second step is a sideways step and the third step is straight back down the LOD. Also look at the ladies step on step one on which she is turning on the Right Heel only. Which makes most of the turn on which foot for both the man and lady.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by nigelgwee
5/21/2008  5:12:00 PM
This is not an opinion, but a direct reading from the ISTD syllabus. The man does a 1/4 turn between steps 1-2, 1/8 between 2-3; the lady does all her 3/8 turn between 1-2.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by Serendipidy
5/21/2008  5:48:00 PM
nigelgwee. It gets interesting because what I am looking at on two demonstrations is no further turn on the RF step two and nothing on step three which is straight back
When reading the ladies steps How is it, if that turn is on step one Should two have been mentioned as part of the 3/8 turn when the 3/8 is not part of step two. The same for the man on step three. Why include it. Do you see what I mean. It can be so easily misread. Look at Luca and Hilton for a demonstration of a Reverse Turn.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by nigelgwee
5/21/2008  6:39:00 PM
Serendipidy. As I understand it, turns are measured BETWEEN foot placements, and refer to the feet rather than the rest of the body (which often turns less, especially on backward movements).

Looking at Alex Moore's descriptions, I see where you might have got the description of 3/8 turn between 1-3 (Man) [the ISTD syllabus is just a little more detailed]. You're right about Step 3 moving straight back containing no turn (Moore's description is "...3/8ths of a turn between 1 and 3, and 3/8ths of a turn between 4 and 7"--notice there's no turn between 3 and 4).

This would explain why the lady's 3/8 turn is described as between steps 1 and 2. Her (heel) turn is complete by step 2.

On the man's step two, however, perhaps you might want to look at the feet specifically--the upper body in the demonstration may hardly rotate at all at this point. This isolation between the upper part of the body and the feet is what I find especially beautiful about much of standard/smooth dancing.

Hope this helps. In the meantime, I'll pursue your suggestion and check out Luca and Hilton--ultimate models of standard technique, IMHO.

Cheers.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by Serendipidy
5/22/2008  5:32:00 PM
nigelgwee. It does get interesting and the books somewhat contradictory. When it says On the Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot on the second step " RF to the side across the LOD. Then it says"
" Continue to turn on the RF ".
Why would I continue to turn on a step that I have completed. So I go to the demonstrations of both Luca and Marcus.
Then I start to see other things that I hadn't noticed before. The raising of the left heel at the end of step one. And how close to the RF the LF goes ,brushing and under the body before stepping back LF.
This is also interesting. Richard Gleave teaches that on an Open Imputus Turn. As the LF goes back on step four the head goes back with it. This ensures that the turn is made over the LF. Good Luck.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by nigelgwee
5/22/2008  8:26:00 PM
Serendipidy. At the risk of sounding over-technical and alienating some readers:

"Continue to turn on the RF": Refers to the 1/8 turn between 2-3. The RF is placed on step 2 but the rotation continues until step 3.

"The raising of the left heel at the end of step one" indicates to the lady the heel turn.

Re. the Open Impetus Turn: You're probably referring to the maintenance of sway to facilitate going into promenade position.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by Serendipidy
5/23/2008  5:52:00 PM
nigelgwee. First the Fourth step on an Open Impetus as taught by Richard Gleave has nothing to do with sway. The instruction is that the head goes with the man's LF as he steps back down the LOD. If you don't, you will walk away from your head leaving it in a forward position in relation to your LF and the body weight. Also from the book. Close RF to LF turning on the Left Heel. This is also a Closed Impetus Turn.If you can find Luca and Lorain's Slow Foxtrot Demo. Which is on a tiled floor therefore it is simple to see exactly where he is stepping and on what alignment. If you can see any turning over the RF after step two is in place then you can tell me. After that you might find Marcus Hilton's Basic Foxtrot which you will find is exactly the same.
One more point. Whenever we step to the side in any of the dances we will step from a toe to a toe in a position which is up, having raised the heel of the supporting foot. This is attention to details.
Looking at Luca again on the eighth bar of music see how he takes a half a turn over his left foot into a Reverse. The RF , the one under question can be seen as clear as day.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by nigelgwee
5/23/2008  8:46:00 PM
In the Luca/Loraine video I do see a slight amount of rotation on the man's R toe in the Reverse Turn in question (the one near the beginning), and also at the beginning of the Extended Reverse Wave (the one where they nearly run out of room).

In the Hiltons' Basic Foxtrot clip (I'm assuming it's the one where they do it three times, counting the timing and so forth), Marcus also rotates very slightly on his R toe in the corresponding Reverse Turn near the beginning of the video. Since he's done quite a large turn on his previous LF, the RF turns very little, if at all.

Is it just me, or would anyone else care to comment on what they see in these videos?
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by Iluv2Dance
5/24/2008  1:47:00 AM
Hi to All,
In the slow Foxtrot, the second step of the Rev Turn, is a forward step,- do not swing the leg around partner, as Waltz - and when the majority of weight (would this signify the end of step 2 of 1/4?) is received onto the RF turn is then made, making sure that the left foot brushes to the ankles of the right foot and in so doing keeping a small base, before stepping back.

The way to remember this is to count 5 forward steps, starting with the Feather Step on the RF and not to think of swinging into a turn between steps 4-5, but just to step forward and then back for step 6.

If you have never danced it this way, try it. This is what you are seeing when viewing the videos.

I would like to mention that Loraine Barry (Baricchi) is in my opinion one of the best lady dancers of all time.
Re: Attention to details.
Posted by Serendipidy
5/24/2008  2:15:00 AM
lluv2Dance. You aren't looking at the videos on youtube that I am looking at. Just as the technique book says they step to the side , across the LOD on step two. You tell me. Can you see any further turn over that step two on the man's RF. It makes it easy to see dancing on a large square tiled floor. I can only tell you what I can see. I have been able to copy onto my computer the ones I am refering to. Luca's RF does not move even a fraction of an inch. Anybody can see it if they wish.
The trouble with most that I see is that the CBMP on the Feather Step is not done correctly. The left shoulder needs to be on a line with diag to centre. Not square to the middle or even worse pointing diag to centre against the LOD with the foot where it should be and that is diag to centre. In a nutshell the later is CBM . It should be CBMP. Only then can you get the turn that we see done by the best.

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