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Re: Abbreviation query
Posted by anymouse
9/12/2008  7:27:00 PM
"Oh, and CBMP HAS NO STEPS! It is a position of the body and feet."

CBMP is a position into which a given step can be placed, which comes in two flavors indicating how far across to the other side of the body it the foot lands.

Going circularly around the standing foot, the front half choices for step placement are:

side
side and slightly forward
diagonally forward
forward
forward in CBMP
forward and across in CBMP (and PP)


As a matter of definition placements are relative to the standing foot not to the body, so "across" refers to the moving foot landing across the standing foot - both "forward in CBMP" and "forward and across in CBMP" are placed across the body, while the first lands in front of the standing foot and only the second is across it.

Re: Abbreviation query
Posted by dheun
9/12/2008  9:50:00 PM
The original poster probably could have learned all he or she needed to know by going into this site's learning center and clicking on the diagonal movements section. The CBMP is illustrated in a manner that shows a beginner all they would need to know at this point.
If you did a search of "Contra Body Movement in the Waltz" it would probably be several pages of explanation. In other words, you'd have information overload.
BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by jofjonesboro
9/13/2008  4:17:00 PM
Why did you even make that response? You said absolutely nothing! Are you trying to claim that CBMP DOES have steps? ANY position on the dance floor is one "into which a given step can be placed, . . ."

You still have not explained the difference between a student's ability to identify a step and the same student's ability to execute it when told to do so. Guess what? There is none.

jj
Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by Polished
9/14/2008  5:21:00 AM
I don't think any of you have mentioned that on all steps taken outside your partner either forward or back must be in CBMP. If you do not you will come apart Alex Moore only needed 57 words to explain CBMP which is a lot less than most of you writting.
One other thing that is related is that every first step of any figure you can find is straight without any turn untill the end of.
Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by Telemark
9/14/2008  6:50:00 AM
All steps OP must be in CBMP? What, even step 3 of a Fishtail in QS?

BTW, Howard (as quoted verbatim) uses 31 words to Moore's 57. Buy a technique book, Polished.
Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by jofjonesboro
9/14/2008  6:47:00 AM
Perfectly good descriptions of CBM and CBMP have been provided in this thread. Some people have chosen to take issue with those descriptions for reasons which no one else would imagine.

jj
Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by dheun
9/14/2008  1:35:00 PM
jj, you are a humorous fellow, I'll give you that. Look at the original poster's question, and I would bet my house that the learning center's diagonal directions info would have answered her question sufficiently, along with explaining that it meant Contra Body Movement Position (which of course would mean nothing to her if she didn't know what Contra Body Movement was). If that's crazy, then I guess I just joined in with everyone else who made it more complicated than it needed to be. But yes, I would agree that, throughout the bevy of answers, solid information was offered. You still have a penchant for not letting the original poster read responses and decide for themselves what sinks in and what doesn't. But I'm OK with that. You're really not a bad cop in that regard -- and you know your stuff, which is of vital importance and helpful to others, and you've improved my knowledge and dancing often.


Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by anymouse
9/14/2008  5:11:00 PM
"One other thing that is related is that every first step of any figure you can find is straight without any turn untill the end of."

Not true.

In classic technique the direction of travel is unaltered during step one, but there are steps in which official "turn" (which specifically means turn of the moving foot) occurs as step one is placed, which is quite a bit before the end of step one. We just had a go on that recently with the weave from promenade after a whisk, surely you have not forgotten already?
Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by anymouse
9/14/2008  5:18:00 PM
"You still have not explained the difference between a student's ability to identify a step and the same student's ability to execute it when told to do so. Guess what? There is none."

The subject is not a step, but a property of a step.

There is a substantial difference between understanding an idea enough to apply it when instructed to (which is what we'd be aiming for with a beginner - when it says CBMP, place the moving leg across your body), vs. being able to figure out when in a sequence of movements such a technique should be used based on an in-depth understanding of its definition and the mechanics of the piece of dancing being attempted.

It is, as I said before, the difference between being qualified to read a book, and being qualified to write one.
Re: BlahBlahBlah BlahBlah
Posted by jofjonesboro
9/15/2008  6:26:00 AM
But more importantly, the reason I maintain it's unecessary to bring this into the answer to a beginner question is that a beginner dancer does not need to know when to say a step can or cannot be considered to be be placed CBMP, they need to know what to do when an expert has written that it should be placed in CBMP.



There is a substantial difference between understanding an idea enough to apply it when instructed to (which is what we'd be aiming for with a beginner - when it says CBMP, place the moving leg across your body), vs. being able to figure out when in a sequence of movements such a technique should be used based on an in-depth understanding of its definition and the mechanics of the piece of dancing being attempted.


The concept of CBMP hardly qualifies as "in-depth" knowledge. It's impossible to teach the bronze Standard syllabus without it.

Any instructor who teaches CBMP without also explaining its purpose isn't much of an instructor.

Finally, you are incorrect to claim that CBM and CBMP have nothing in commmon except nomenclature.

The disagreement is specifically with this idea that you can only understand CBMP in relation to CBM.

It's false - they are seperate concepts and it's easier to learn what each really means on its own, than to worry about why some dance teachers once, perhaps unwisely, named one in allusion to the other.


Both the movement and the position (which is part of the movement) are taught for the same reason.

jj



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