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Re: Seriously?
Posted by cbmp
4/17/2011  1:35:00 PM
"Text speak is not any form of English and I think it is rude to subject strangers to it. Society as a whole is ever removing itself from basic manners with technology as an excuse."

I wasn't going to dignify the original post on this thread by commenting in any form. But I think you've hit the crux of the matter.

There was a time when written English (or French, German, whatever) was more formal than the spoken form. I believe this is still true of most languages. But, for some reason, English seems to be a glaring exception, in spite of spell-checking and even grammar-checking capabilities on our word processors.

Sadly, these days even scientific and technical writing is not spared this insult. Let us tolerate neither this, nor sloppy posture/footwork.
Re: Seriously?
Posted by anymouse
4/18/2011  8:12:00 AM
While there are a few abbreviations such as might be used in mobile phone texting (which is a leading form of communication in some parts of the world), the main point is that the source language before the abbreviations is a very different form of english than the one most of us are familiar with. And it's really not our place to judge that local language by the standards of our different language.

Remember, it's a message of LOCAL interest, and aimed at a young adult audience. The people who are objecting are NOT examples of the people it was intended to appeal to.

The only actual mistake was posting it on a global forum without more prominently specifying the location or purpose.
Re: Seriously?
Posted by belleofyourball
4/18/2011  12:33:00 PM
This is from the CIA World Factbook...

Setswana 78.2%, Kalanga 7.9%, Sekgalagadi 2.8%, English (official) 2.1%, other 8.6%, unspecified 0.4% (2001 census)

So though it is the official language of the country it is not the most common langauge. It is the langauge used in business as it is in many parts of the globe.

I'm back to my original point...sheer laziness.

Re: Seriously?
Posted by Anonymous
4/18/2011  9:30:00 PM
"So though it is the official language of the country it is not the most common langauge. It is the langauge used in business as it is in many parts of the globe.

I'm back to my original point...sheer laziness"

How do you get from recognizing that English is not the language of common usage in a country, to criticizing someone who writes a message to a local audience in a local, living variant of it for being "lazy" ?

Re: Seriously?
Posted by anymouse
4/18/2011  9:31:00 PM
"So though it is the official language of the country it is not the most common langauge. It is the langauge used in business as it is in many parts of the globe.

I'm back to my original point...sheer laziness"

How do you get from recognizing that English is not the language of common usage in a country, to criticizing someone who writes a message to a local audience in a local, living variant of it for being "lazy" ?
Re: Seriously?
Posted by belleofyourball
4/19/2011  7:55:00 PM
What makes you assume that it isn't? Have you been to Botswana?

If only 2.1% of the population speaks English and it is used as a business language then it is most likely taught formally in schools. It is also likely this is the first time most people from Botswana learn it as a spoken language.

Formal language as taught in schools tends to be more polite as a rule. Therefore the line of logic says...she should be versed in polite English and not that garbage she wrote.

I do appreciate that you want to give her the benefit of the doubt...that is kind of you.
Re: Seriously?
Posted by anymouse
4/20/2011  12:59:00 PM
"If only 2.1% of the population speaks English and it is used as a business language then it is most likely taught formally in schools. It is also likely this is the first time most people from Botswana learn it as a spoken language."

You are most likely mis-interpreting that statistic to conclude that only 2.1% of the population speaks English and that they learned the language in school.

Much more likely (the world over) is that there's a wide familiarity with a local pidgeon version of english containing heavy influences from the native language, local meter and speech patterns, and of course input from popular media - and that this is far more dominant than the official "learned in school" version of the language in everyday communication between ordinary people.

And it's that local english which the message appears to be written in.

If you are familiar with the "Pata Pata is the name of a dance we do down Johannesburg way" Cha cha track, the local english interludes may give some idea of the effect (although while Tswana is also spoken in South Africa, it's not the language in that song)
Re: Seriously?
Posted by belleofyourball
4/20/2011  10:44:00 PM
Anymouse,

You and I aren't going to agree on this. I don't actually mind people trying to struggle to speak a language...or write a language.

Pidgin English is something I have been introduced to and I will be honest...I've been to almost 50 countries and been exposed to plenty of dialects. I've been to every continent but Antarctia...charming local dialect here doesn't ring true in my ears.

I am really not that old...trust me I don't have any grey hair and it didn't get that way because I dye it. So that isn't a valid argument to use against me either.

I recognize text speak...I saw it I recognized it...I felt it was unacceptable.

The question is why do you feel so desperate to accept rude writing? Why do you need to defend it? What stake do you have in approving of her so called 'pidgin' English?

Sociologicaly speaking...you are not doing her or anyone else any favors by accepting inappropriate communications no matter how 'colorful' you might feel they are.

Re: Seriously?
Posted by Ladydance
4/21/2011  12:39:00 PM
Thank you Belle. I was gong to ask the same questions. This forum use to be full of interesting questions and debates (OK, fights) about dancing. Now it has been reduced to partner requests with no info as to where the person lives or anything. It is beyond boring. Often, I think these requests are fishing expeditions by young women with no dancing experience who happened to come across this site once, never to return. Same with the requests for music. Do any of these people actually read the responses? A simple thank you would be nice every once in awhile. Usually, I ignore most posts but this one was particularly galling and incredibly ignorant.
Re: Seriously?
Posted by anymouse
4/22/2011  9:39:00 PM
"The question is why do you feel so desperate to accept rude writing? Why do you need to defend it? What stake do you have in approving of her so called 'pidgin' English?"

People are going to speak the language they speak every day in the way they speak it regardless if you or I approve or not.

"Sociologicaly speaking...you are not doing her or anyone else any favors by accepting inappropriate communications no matter how 'colorful' you might feel they are."

I do not have any problem with someone communicating with someone with whom they share a dialect using that dialect.

Perhaps the difference between you and I is that I recognize that neither of us were amongst the intended audience of that message.

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