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Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by francoT
7/6/2011  3:59:00 PM
You may ask same question for american style cha cha cha. Some people start forward to lead with left foot on 2, 3, 4, & 1 as a short cut. Some start to lead with left foot on the side on 1, left foot back on 2, 3 in place, 4 on side, & on side close, 1 on the side. Then left foot forward on 2.

As I said in my comments for RUMBA, SAME BANANA!

Ron Montez emphasizes this in his VIDEO.

Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by Voco
2/7/2013  4:27:00 PM
Will someone explain to me why there is so much discussion on which beat to start dancing.

In my opinion it does not matter as long as one observes the basic rhythm (for CC: 2,3,C,C ,1), from which syncopating variations are allowed. The judges dont care if you start with the L or the R foot, as long your basic rhythm is correct and you emphasize the correct beats, such as 1 or sometimes 3 in CC, in other words you are technically correct otherwise.
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by waynelee
2/8/2013  6:51:00 AM
Just an interesting FYI fact.... The Arthur Murray studio's syllabus has the American Rumba starting with a forward step (for the man) with the left foot in a SQQ count. The Fred Astaire syllabus has the Rumba starting with a side step (for the man) with the left foot in a QQS count.

Like others have stated, it really doesn't matter to judges which way you start as long as your basic rhythm is correct.
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by nloftofan1
2/8/2013  7:42:00 AM
A "folk tale" I've heard related to this is that Arthur Murray taught EVERY dance with the gentleman starting by stepping forward on his left foot. When the Fred Astaire studios were established ("stealing" some instructors from Arthur Murray), they taught Rumba starting with the side step instead of the forward step to avoid a lawsuit for "stealing" patterns from the Arthur Murray syllabus. (I don't know enough about copyright law to know if it is possible to copyright a dance pattern.) As the story goes, Fred Astaire (the studio, not the person) claimed that starting with the side step is more like the way Cubans dance—I have no idea if this was actually true. It's a good story, at least.
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by rgswoohoo
2/9/2013  5:56:00 PM
Arthur Murray arranges all of its dances to start on the ONE beat (except for Mambo), thus the reason for the SQQ pattern.
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by waynelee
2/9/2013  8:06:00 PM
I am a little confused about rgswoohoo comment. IMO, Fred Astaire and Arthur Murray both teach students to start on the 1 beat for all American dances, smooth and rhythm, except for mambo. In the example of the rumba, they differ on whether it is a SQQ or a QQS step pattern, but they both start on the 1 beat. Another difference, in Eastern Swing, AM starts with the back rock, FA starts with the first triple step, but again both start on the 1 beat. With their attempts to be "different", it has always amazed me that both studios start the Cha Cha with a left side step (for the man) on the 1 beat, and then a back step on 2. Since most studios in the US start beginning students on the American Style, the studios don't need to teach that International Latin Rumba starts on the 2 beat until the student has progressed, and hopefully can fathom the difference and not be confused (of course, there are a lot of other differences that the student must learn).
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by nloftofan1
2/10/2013  8:10:00 AM
If you listen to the music, you will hear that in some Rumba songs the downbeat is on a S, while in others it is on a Q. So some songs naturally lend themselves to the SQQ rhythm; others naturally fit the QQS rhythm.

I learned Rumba from teachers who taught the QQS rhythm, so I try to find the first Q in a measure (which may not be the first note in a measure) and start then. Once you get into the dance, it makes no difference.

Dancing is moving your body through space to music. Listen to the music. Don't worry so much about the steps. (The foot positions matter, but they aren't primary.) Your feet just keep the rhythm.
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by terence2
2/13/2013  6:40:00 AM
First.. one cannot ( in most instances ) name propriatory rights, to specific fundamental dance figures. AM has figures with their names incorporated,which are copyrite, BUT, a BOX construction pre dates all the dance school figures.

Once again, the commencing direction in latin, has to do with the " call and response " theory , to which the the music relates.

Both the SQQ and QQS , occupy the 1st 2 beats of a bar, the key ,is to make sure its the correct bar, in the 2 bar sequence .
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by terence2
2/13/2013  6:50:00 AM
You're getting a little confused here (I was an examiner for many yrs in the States both Intern. and Amer. styles) and unless AM has changed since I left, their ECS, commenced with a Triple to the mans left.

And the Cha in Intern. style is normally "prepped " on "1" before breaking on " 2" as are the Amer.styles. Direction is just one of the major differences between the two.

There has, in recent times, been some Profs who think that the Amer. system needs to be more aligned with the Intern, style in technique. (I personally, disagree with this).
Re: Rumba Box Step ????
Posted by terence2
2/13/2013  7:01:00 AM
The " down beat " is the 1 and 3 of each bar; combining the 1st and 2nd beat in the bar, thus occupying more " time ", is given a SLOW value. " 2 " is contra tiempo and occurs on 2 and 4.

If you mean that some songs seem more "1" than "2" oriented, yes, that does happen ,and some more of a "2" , particularly in Salsa, BUT, that, does not change the basic principle of the music structure.

For e.g. in Cuban Son, the stressed "4" is its signature , but ,its still breaks on "2", contra tiempo, with a very identifiable "1" in the bar .

Latin music is very complex, and can even change mid stream in a song, going from a 3/2 clave to a 2/3 .

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