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Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by O.Z.
10/21/2012  4:45:00 PM
BioSimon. I have Laird's book edition 1988. I think the page numbers have been altered.Maybe this will help. Going to the Fan Position after the Swivel on 4 1 Step forward on 2 .Step on 3 turning at the end of 3. Then one Backward Walk on 4 1. You are now in the Fan Position. Remember that the step on 4 1 is not a side step. It is one Backward Walk. In the Fan Postion if you drew an imaginary line straight forward from your RF it would pass 15 cms in front of the mans body
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by BioSimon
10/21/2012  9:13:00 PM
Thanks O. Z. for your swift reply! :)

Regardless of the actual page number, I suppose that any recent edition of Laird's Technique will contain a decription of the figure named Fan in Rumba.

Unfortunately, my above question still remains unanswered: how can a Fwd Walk Turning of only "1/8 to L" result in "RF back and slightly to side" (Step No. 2)?

If I try to dance it, I end up "RF to side and slightly fwd".. Any ideas?

Thanks a lot!
Simon
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by Guest
10/23/2012  11:57:00 PM
FWT is used in two basic situations:
1. Make a turn while moving fwd, and continue to move fwd
2. Change direction from moving fwd to moving bwd

The lady's step in the Fan is the later one.

From Laird's, Under "First Principles", Section "Forward Walk Turning":

"When using a Forward Walk Turning to change direction from moving forward to moving backward...... The foot position at the end of this step is "Back and slightly to side". If the figure being danced requires more turn to be made this is achieved during the following backward step. An example of the use of the Forward walk Turning to change direction from moving forward to moving backward occurs in Rumba during the last two steps, for lady, in all figures that finish in Fan Position or Open Position".

(As opposed to *all* men's steps that finish in fan position, which are fwd-to-fwd)

Hope this helps
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by BioSimon
10/24/2012  3:15:00 PM
Thanks for the reply!

I did read that part very carefully, and it also says:

"The change in direction is achieved by dancing a NORMAL FORWARD WALK action but with a gradual turn in the required direction made throughout the step."

And:

"..to continue forward or backward on the FOLLOWING step".

According to this description, the lady's step No. 2 of the Fan has to be actually still taken NORMAL FORWARD. The FOLLOWING step No. 3 is a backward step.

How is step No. 2 a "normal Forward Walk", when it actually has to be taken to the side and then turned 1/8 to the L in order to achieve the required Foot Position? (Taking it forward and turning it only 1/8 would not result in "RF back and slightly to side".)

If eg. the lady comes from a Hip Twist, she turns 3/8 - so she really does take a Forward Walk and turns it to end up in a position to continue with a backward walk - that makes totally sense to me, I see the Forward Walk in this.

Not so much with the lady's step 2 of the Fan though.. I cannot detect the "normal Forward Walk" anywhere here.. "Side Walk Turning" would sound much more descriptive in this case, wouldn't it?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me!
Simon
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by BioSimon
10/24/2012  7:57:00 PM
O. Z. The reason why you don't ever end up with your legs crossed is because Laird defines:

"When using a Forward Walk Turning to change direction from moving forward to moving backward the maximum turn that can be made during the Forward Walk Turning is 3/8. The Foot Position at the end of this step is 'Back and slightly to side'. If the figure being danced requires more turn to be made this is achieved during the following backward step".

That is why there is no indication in the book of walking across the body on this step. This also applies to the figure you have described, which sounds like an Open Hip Twist ending in Fan position. That is a different figure, however, and I don't have any problems with following Walter Laird's description of this one.

I appreciate your comments very much, yet my question was really a different one: what I am trying to find out is Walter Laird's logic when describing step No. 2 of The Fan as a FORWARD Walk Turning "1/8 to L" ending "RF back and slighly to side". Therefore, I cannot simply forget the 1/8 turn, as this is the actual point of interest of my discussion of this section of the book.

Greetings - Simon :)


Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by Telemark
10/25/2012  4:34:00 AM
Don't overlook that Laird's charts define turn in the body, not the feet.
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by BioSimon
10/25/2012  6:00:00 AM
@Telemark: yes, I have taken that into account, but, unfortunately, it still does not explain the Foot Position.


Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by Guest
10/25/2012  3:48:00 AM
I guess I've misunderstood your main point .I thought the you had a problem with the position of the foot (which is at the end of the step, indeed "backward and to the side". This gives the lady the opportunity to perform a bwd walk on the next move).
Now, if I understand you correctly, the term "Normal" FWT is the issue.
Well, I've got to admit that you've got a point there, although I failed to see the definition of "normal" (in terms of "distance" and "direction").
So, I guess that what you've pointed out make sense *only* if you treat "normal" FWT as taking a "full stride" directly fwd (which I'm not sure is the correct interpretation of the term).
I'll be more than happy of any further information on the subject.
Best regards,
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by BioSimon
10/25/2012  6:00:00 AM
@Guest: exactly - I would be inclined to call the action here a "Side Step Turning" instead... please correct me if I'm wrong
Re: Foot Position in Laird's Technique
Posted by socialdancer
10/26/2012  7:12:00 AM
Is nobody prepared to consider the possibility of a mis-print? Substitute a B for the F and step 2 becomes a Bwd walk turning, which is effectively what the other technique books describe.

Remember we are discussing the basic Fan, not the hip twist which does use a fwd walk turning but with more turn so that the ending foot position becomes back and to the side.

The basic fan is so rarely danced nowadays except in the very early beginner stage that we tend to forget that it exists in its own right.

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