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Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/13/2007  7:41:00 AM
International Rumba is 2341 and American Rumba is either Slow Quick Quick or Quick Quick Slow. Why is there a difference in the American Rumba count in different studios or schools?
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Latin
3/13/2007  4:01:00 PM
Why is there a difference in the American Rumba count in different studios. Most of them didn`t listen to the music for starters. .
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/13/2007  4:22:00 PM
I think Fred Astaire uses a QQS for American Rumba and Dance Vision and this site uses SQQ for American Rumba.
Not sure about AM.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by DennisBeach
3/13/2007  6:39:00 PM
We took lesson at Fred Astaire and you are correct. They taught it QQS.

When they teach it SQQ, do they start the slow on the same beat in the measure as the others do the quick with QQS or do they have you start on a different beat so you are still doing the slow and quicks in the same part of a measure..
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Annie
3/13/2007  7:22:00 PM
Both SQQ and QQS start on the downbeat, so they timing would not match with two couples. I prefer SQQ- it seems to fit the music. Bo-oom plunk plunk. but as long as the timing stays consistent, everything is cool.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Luv2Latin
3/16/2007  12:41:00 AM
I know nothing about American Rumba. In the book . In the International Style, with International timing, if you had to use quicks and slows, the count would be Q Q S. with the first step on beat two which would be 2 3 4 1
(4 1 ) being the slow. Fred Astaire was correct.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/16/2007  7:21:00 AM
"know nothing about American Rumba. In the book . In the International Style, with International timing, if you had to use quicks and slows, the count would be Q Q S. with the first step on beat two which would be 2 3 4 1
(4 1 ) being the slow. Fred Astaire was correct."

Ineed, you know NOTHING about American Rumba.

There are THREE different rumba timings, and they do not match each other, even once the dance is under way.

1) International
2) Fred Astaire
3) Arthur Murray

Just because you can call two of them QQS does not mean that they are the same QQS - they aren't.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by anona
3/16/2007  9:47:00 AM
Yes - saying 'QQSS' means nothing after your first months in bronze level, and certainly does not tell you anyhting about the movement. For instance, slow is over what beats, is i=t a body action or just a step etc.

Are you also aware that as you progress, you will be counting International as 2 and a 3 and a 4 1?

Actually, you can make QQSS or any combination 'work' when you look at ANY movement, since you are glossing over the beats.

Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/16/2007  12:21:00 PM
"Actually, you can make QQSS or any combination 'work' when you look at ANY movement, since you are glossing over the beats."

Might want to rethink that. "QQSS" is 6 beats, not four!
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Luv2Latin.
3/16/2007  7:46:00 PM
I`m not with some of you guys there. In the International Style Rumba Basic there are three steps to four beats. If you listen to a correctly played Rumba in between each beat there is another which makes eight in all. The steps are taken on the solid beats two three four . One is a settling of the hip. The in between beats belong to the hips, like a conection between the 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and. There is your eight. This is really getting into it. Ask the average person in a correctly played Rumba. On which beat is the predominant percusive beat. Its not one, neither is it two. It is the fourth beat with the music. A good one to listen to is Chris De Burgh`s The Lady in Red.
Something else to look for. In a major competition take note of the setup for the man or the lady in the Rumba or Cha. It is not with the feet square and apart rolling over on beat one. Nobody there would do it that way.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/16/2007  9:37:00 PM
"I`m not with some of you guys there. In the International Style Rumba "

Not very suprising. The thread isn't about international rumba.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Annie
3/17/2007  3:11:00 PM
Really!
I think "Lady in Red" is a wonderful night club two-step. It is way too slow for an American style rumba.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Luv2Latin
3/17/2007  4:03:00 PM
Annie. What is a two step ? . Chris De Burgh` s The Lady in Red 24 BPM is on a disk called Ultimate Ballroom 6. If you are interested on the same disk is
Vuelvo Al Sur. by Gotan Project. It is listed as a Show Rumba and is worth listening to. On there also is Love Walked Right In. sung by Diana Washington 25 BPM. If you haven` t noticed of late even though the official time for a Rumba is 28 BMP. Even in the IDSF major titles they are down to 25 BPM. The recordings are now coming out at that tempo and have been for a while. The movement of the hips now being taught is best suited at the slower speed. My teacher says that if the music is too fast the first thing that suffers is the hip movement. Good Luck
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/17/2007  4:42:00 PM
LuvLatin,

You are still not paying any attenion.

The thread IS NOT ABOUT INTERNATIONAL RUMBA.

It is about AMERICAN RUMBA which is a DIFFERENT DANCDE WITH DIFFERENT COUNT (actually, two choices there, both differing from international) and requiring FASTER MUSIC.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by LuvLatin
3/18/2007  5:28:00 PM
If you look again you will see the thread is asking about the count . One studio says S Q Q . The other is Q Q S. In the International technique book it does give an alternate way of counting using Slows and Quicks. It is Q Q S .
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/18/2007  10:39:00 PM
"If you look again you will see the thread is asking about the count . One studio says S Q Q . The other is Q Q S. In the International technique book it does give an alternate way of counting using Slows and Quicks. It is Q Q S ."

Sure, and you can count a runing finish in quickstep as QQS.

But, it's not the same as the international rumba QQS, any more than the american rumba variant described as QQS is the same as the international rumba QQS.

There are THREE distinct rumba timings - international and TWO VERSIONS of american, NEITHER OF WHICH MATCHES INTERNATIONAL TIMING.

Or tempo, for that matter - both american version being a bit faster, even today.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/18/2007  10:43:00 PM
Internatinoal: "QQS" 2,3,4-1

American:

"SQQ" 1-2,3,4

or

"QQS" 1,2,3-4

See how the two "QQS" timings are completely different and incompatible?
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by LuvLatin
3/19/2007  6:29:00 PM
For one who doesn` t do the American Style and trying to make sense out of it. To me it is how you start off.
If you use S Q Q . it means you are doing the Slow on the RF to the side and continue.
If you are using Q Q S. It probably means your first step is a Front Basic on the LF for a Q and continue. Whichever way you are taught the Slow will have Two beats and the Quicks One beat. I hope this is clear.In the International Style on a Basic the first step forward LF is on beat two. So we have step one on beat two. Thus we have the count of
2 3 (4 1). Not knowing the other styles there is a possibility you are dancing (3 4). 1 2. Which to us is out of time with the music.
Finely. If you were into a Sequence Rumbas, there are many of them, The Queen of Hearts is one. They all start LF forward on beat one.
Whichever way, we have Two legs Four Beats . Three Steps and One hip movement.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by Anonymous
3/19/2007  7:18:00 PM
"For one who doesn` t do the American Style and trying to make sense out of it. To me it is how you start off.
If you use S Q Q . it means you are doing the Slow on the RF to the side and continue.
If you are using Q Q S. It probably means your first step is a Front Basic on the LF for a Q and continue. Whichever way you are taught the Slow will have Two beats and the Quicks One beat. I hope this is clear.In the International Style on a Basic the first step forward LF is on beat two. So we have step one on beat two. Thus we have the count of
2 3 (4 1). Not knowing the other styles there is a possibility you are dancing (3 4). 1 2. Which to us is out of time with the music."

While the slow in international rumba crosses the bar line, the slow in either style of american rumba is contained within a single bar. It is 1-2 in one style and 3-4 in the other, never the 4-1 used in international.

You might call that off time with the music from your perspective, but it's really not - because the MUSIC IS DIFFERENT, not just in its tempo. There's a few wishy washy songs that can be danced either way, but when you know both dancers some numbers will scream for international timing with it's cross bar slow, and others will scream out for the american approach with its contained, half-measure slow. Even if you alter the tempo, you really can't turn one song into the other - at a minimum, you'd have to re-record with a different philosophy in the rhythm section.
Re: Rumba Count
Posted by LuvLatin
3/19/2007  8:18:00 PM
Not in a competition, but we can do a Rumba to some tunes that are actually Foxtrots. It shouldn t be difficult even for a beginner to pick out the beats and link the 4 with the 1. Personally i would never count in slows and quicks. It is fine for the absolute basics. But after that it wont work.
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