You are still not keeping you moving foot in contact with the floor are you. You are still walking in which we do lift our foot from the floor. With the foot off the floor you are on one leg literally on one leg and moving. We do not dance that way either going forward or backward.
"You are still not keeping you moving foot in contact with the floor are you."
On the contrary, I am.
The difference is that unlike you, I am aware that it usually doesn't make much difference. I can do pretty much the same thing when lifting up street shoes slightly to clear a bad dance surface.
"With the foot off the floor you are on one leg literally on one leg and moving. We do not dance that way either going forward or backward."
What you fail to understand is that WHEN YOU DANCE, YOU ARE ALSO ON ONLY ONE LEG AT A TIME. Even if we momentarily accept your mistaken argument about mid-stride, that dual support phase would only be a tiny fraction of the time. At any point when one foot is moving, you are obviously standing ONLY ON THE STATIONARY FOOT.
So you are one of those whos feet leaves the floor, going backward or forward. This will account for your belief that we are moving from imbalance to imbalance, so imbalance means not being balanced. By the way you write it would seem you are using momentum to keep you upright. I think we can exclude a Waltz from this argument unless you think that the Waltz is also an imbalaced thing. I doubt that you think it is. The Tango is also a none runner. The V. Waltz has its problems where flighting the body without it it wouldn` t move. It does rely on speed. So we have the Foxtrot. If you lift your feet from the floor, that is one at a time. Your feet will start to move to quickly. You will be racing through the music. If both you and your partner are off the floor both at the same time you are falling onto your step. Use any type of model you like the result will be the same. Drop that scientific clap trap. Ballroom Dancing is an art and not a science. To recap Ballroom Dancing is an art. If you have no contact with the floor with your moving foot your foot will move too quickly. Your timing will suffer and you will most likely be off the beat producing a muddy looking Foxtrot. I`ve tried to pin you down on this one without success. Do you believe that the person moving backwards has pressure on both feet as they move. Are both feet in contact with the floor. Or are they also imbalanced falling from foot to foot with the body moving ahead of the feet. When its put like that it does sound ridicules, doesn`t it. Also please explain what you meant when you wrote. The mistaken argument of mid stride. Which has everything to do with foot pressure.
"So you are one of those whos feet leaves the floor, going backward or forward."
No! I did not say that at all.
Apparently you studied at the George Bush school of diplomacy.
I don't share your obsession with the altitude of the moving foot, but absent any reason to raise it (and there usually is none) I would not recommend doing so. On the other hand, if there is a reason to raise it (such as unsuitable shoes and/or floor) I can do so with no real disruption.
"By the way you write it would seem you are using momentum to keep you upright."
Yes, that is how humans have been walking every since our ancestors left the trees. You can deny it until you are blue in the face, but you will not change SIMPLE FACTS KNOWN TO ANYONE WHO HAS MADE A SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF HUMAN MOVEMENT.
"If you have no contact with the floor with your moving foot your foot will move too quickly."
On the contrary, if it is only contact with the floor that keeps your moving foot from moving too quickly then THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH YOUR MOVEMENT. If your movement were well aimed and efficient, there would be no need for a braking drag from that foot - that you need it is proof that your movement is MISAIMED and INEFFICIENT. Now that's fine for a beginner, but you sure give the impression that you've been dancing long enough to have moved years beyond that stage!
"I`ve tried to pin you down on this one without success. Do you believe that the person moving backwards has pressure on both feet as they move."
Of course not!
"Are both feet in contact with the floor."
Yes, unless there is a good reason for one not to be. Unecessarily lifting a foot is wasteful - but if it becomes necessary due to a bad floor/shoe situation, it would not change anything on a skilled and coordinated dancer.
"Also please explain what you meant when you wrote. The mistaken argument of mid stride. Which has everything to do with foot pressure."
You would not be able to get to your alleged mid-stride position (which is a mistake), or mine either (which is proper) without either
1) going of balance (the proper way
2) sliding a lot of your weight on the moving foot in order to stay balanced (the improper way, very limiting, and will cause you to trip if someone changes the floor wax)
3) stopping your body over your standing foot until after your moving foot has been placed. Talk about silly walks!!
I said to you. So you are one of those whos feet leave the floor going forward or backward.Your reply. No I did not say that at all. What did you mean then when you wrote. When you dance you are also only on one leg at a time. I`m beginning to see where you are coming from when you wrote. Lifting a foot becomes waistfull but it becomes necessary due to a bad floor. If you cannot keep in contact with the floor, then have you ever danced on a correctly prepared floor. If all your dancing, or the majority of your dancing is on floors where the feet have to be lifted in order to move. I feel sorry for you. You will never dance correctly, I would wager on your studio sticky floor nobody practises moving down the floor and then backwards using the correct contact with the floor as stipulated in all of the technique books. If you can` t do it with an extended hold, or solo, then you can` t do it in a normal ballroom hold. If your floors are slow another pair of prepared shoes are needed. The boot of my car is like a travelling shoe shop. I take with me two pair of Latin and three pair of Standard. I can manage any type of surface I am likely to meet. Going backwards both feet are in contact withe floor. From the time the supporting knee is flexed to the front and the ball of moving foot brushes the floor till it is fully extended. Then the front heel which is movings is in contact with the floor untill it becomes a ball as it passes under the body and the supporting heel lowers to the floor. This needs to be practised . For how long. Forever.
"I said to you. So you are one of those whos feet leave the floor going forward or backward.Your reply. No I did not say that at all. What did you mean then when you wrote. When you dance you are also only on one leg at a time."
You are going to have to learn that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between:
1) a foot that is in contact with the floor
2) a foot that is supporting the body
I habitually have both feet on the floor when dancing the swing dances, because there is usually NO REASON NOT TO, and lifting them would be inefficient.
But I also have my weight on ONLY ONE FOOT AT A TIME, becuase sliding weight on the moving foot is also INEFFICIENT, inhibits freedom of movement, and confuses one's partner about your intentions.
If you want to confuse somebody you are doing a very good job. Unless you now think diferently you have previously wrote. At any point when one foot is moving you are obviously standing on one leg. You also wrote that the weight goes to the point of imbalance and is then caught. You then stated I wrote it because it is true. On the 10. 17 you wrote. You should fall past your standing foot. I said have you thought of what will happen to the lady when you thrust yourself to the point of inbalance. Your answer was . Not only I insist on it. To get back to the beginning. We are all well aware that the foot we are standing on is on the floor. Is the other foot in contact or are you standing on one leg or rather moving with one foot off the ground. Would you like to rewrite your last two paragraphs,`cos I think your losing it.
"If you want to confuse somebody you are doing a very good job."
Actually, that would be you, by chopping up my comments into meaningless little out of context fragments.
"I said have you thought of what will happen to the lady when you thrust yourself to the point of inbalance. Your answer was . Not only I insist on it."
Now what kind of a quote is that, "not only I insist on it" ???
The actual answer to your question was that the lady has also projected herself into imbalance and is also falling. I said that I not only accepted her doing that, I insisted that she do it! Quote the full context, and the quote makes some sense. But chop up random words, and it's barely better than writing a ransom note by pasting together words cut out of a magazine!
"To get back to the beginning. We are all well aware that the foot we are standing on is on the floor. Is the other foot in contact or are you standing on one leg or rather moving with one foot off the ground."
I am standing on only one leg, however the other foot is ALSO ON THE FLOOR, BUT WITH ZERO WEIGHT.
Being on the floor and being weighted are NOT THE SAME THING. Being on the floor is a necessary condition for bearing weight, but it is NOT A SUFFICIENT CONDITION - it does not imply that there is weight on that foot too. Nor does not having weight on a foot imply that it is off the floor.
Until you understand that, no explanation of dance technique is going to make any sense to you!
I dont know how that message left home. I was going on to say that i have most of your quotes. The one i am fasinated by is that you have said That on a backward lowering step TH must become flat before the departing leg retracts. Exact copy. Is your aim still to establish sufficient doubt in the mind of other dancers who seriously want to improve. There is more but the soccer is just starting got to go Liverpool V Arsenal.
A Backward Walk man or lady. The heel of the supporting foot lowers to the floor as the moving foot passes it. Nobody ever told you any different. No qualified teacher would teach anything but the above. The way to accomplish this is not with a partner at first in a close hold. Either on your own or right palm to right palm. If there is any nodding of the body which will cause a change in the pressure on the palms which should stay constant Untill you get that right how can anybody do it in a ballroom hold. My teachers can go full bore a Feather Reverse Three step and Natural with the hands down by their side . Just the conection with the bodies. I can`t` and most likely never will. But what I will do is put in that road work. Somebody mentioned Ray who I believe is living in LA since moving from here years ago. He said , he was talking about Latin. We should do as many Rumba Walks as a Marathon Runner does miles on the road in their training. Theres a guy who did get 10,000 people to watch a major dance competition. Back to the walks.We with walks in Modern should also be doing the same. Improvement garanteed.
"A Backward Walk man or lady. The heel of the supporting foot lowers to the floor as the moving foot passes it."
There you go again.. IGNORING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WALK, WHICH BY DEFINITION HAS ZERO RISE AND ZERO FALL, AND what I explicitly said I was describing: a LOWERING ACTION.
Obviously, they are different actions and will have DIFFERENT DETAILS.
"Nobody ever told you any different."
They most certainly did! But you wouldn't know anything about that, as you can't be bothered to schedule lessons with any real teachers; instead you are content to ASSUME that you know everything from books and videos. I on the other hand book lessons (with a lot of the people you love to misquote) and ask literal questions about these things...
"No qualified teacher would teach anything but the above."
Your gross ignorance simply proves that YOU HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY HAD A LESSON WITH A fully "qualified teacher"
Stay an ignoramous if you like; the rest of us are busy imporving our dancing, under the guidance of the best teachers on the planet.
No qualified teacher will teach anything that is not in the technique books. Which ever one they are working from. The books do not say that the supporting heel will lower to the floor before the moving foot passes under the body. If you do lower before the foot arrives you are falling away from your partner. What has happened is as the man has lowered the whole of his foot to the floor he will find his partner already gone. But of course if you are one of those that sends their nose in front of their toes. The lady will be pushed over. No teaching book will tell you to dance this way . Qualified teachers. Who are you kidding. Must have bought their credentialls over the counter in there local supermarket.
I somtimes try to stand your side of the fence and figure out how is this going to be done by this person, or for that matter anybody else. I can understand premeture lowering which is a common mistake. But for the life of me I cannot figure out how you can say the body, the body being that part above the hips, I think that to you is your body. But there we have an argument straight away. That is not where the majority of the weight is. But any way. With your knees bent to an angle of 45 degrees how do you get your weight over the front of your base to be the furtherest part forward without toppling over. By all means drive your spine which is your centre forward but it will never overtake your foot.
"But for the life of me I cannot figure out how you can say the body, the body being that part above the hips, I think that to you is your body."
In some cases that would be true.
But it's simple enough to figure out when the discussion is over the difference between what the body does vs what the feet or legs do, that the body is everything except the feet and legs.
"With your knees bent to an angle of 45 degrees how do you get your weight over the front of your base to be the furtherest part forward without toppling over."
By keeping moving and driving towards where the next foot will land (although it is not yet there). You obviously cannot stop in this projected, which is to say off balance, position, but you do have to go through it if you wish to accomplish the character of the dances other than tango.
"By all means drive your spine which is your centre forward but it will never overtake your foot."
You are looking at it the wrong way around. It starts out ahead of the foot. The foot then catches up and overtakes it.