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Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Doug
7/30/2007  6:11:00 AM
There is a left side swing in the feather step and a right side swing in the three step. My question: Does the left side swing continue into the first step of the reverse turn or is it nutralized?
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Doug
7/30/2007  6:14:00 AM
P.S. Change to a forward swing into the first step of the reverse turn? Thanks.
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by anymouse
7/30/2007  8:41:00 AM
"There is a left side swing in the feather step and a right side swing in the three step. My question: Does the left side swing continue into the first step of the reverse turn or is it nutralized?"

The problem with your question is that you are confusing swing and sway.

Swing is an action, a type of movement.

Sway is a position.

You can't neutralize from an action, you can only take an action to neutralize from a position.

As for the right sway in the feather, much of that will have dissolved by then end of the third step of the feather. The left swing is really focused on step one to step two of the feather, and as a result the right sway is most apparent during step two to early step three.

Generally, upswings involve sway wheras downswings tend to be more vertical, in part because sway on a downswing would tend to result in crushing the backwards partner into the floor. It's okay for someone to be on top when the distance between the person underneath and the floor is increasing - but it's a bit more problematic for the person underneath when the distance between the person on top and the floor is decreasing!
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Doug
7/30/2007  10:29:00 AM
Anymouse. I mean swing not sway. We swing the left side of the body forward and up(Flight) this swing continues till the end of beat four untill the drift ends. My question is :when does the this left side lead end? Sway is the end result of cbm and swing.
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by anymouse
7/30/2007  12:58:00 PM
"Anymouse. I mean swing not sway. We swing the left side of the body forward and up(Flight) this swing continues till the end of beat four untill the drift ends."

No, it does not. The UPswing ends at the high point of the step, which is about when the feet pass at the end of step two. At that point, a new swing, a DOWNswing commences.

If we were dancing waltz with foot closure, the boundary between upswing and downswing would be very noticeable as the body flight nearly pauses atthe top. In foxtrot its softer because the body flight continues with only a slowing - but there is still a boundary between the upswing and the downswing.

"My question is :when does the this left side lead end?"

That's not a question about swing (an action), it's a question about a body position.

"Sway is the end result of cbm and swing."

Yes. And side lead is an end result of CBM (or other rotation), with or without swing.

Side lead and sway are both positions.

CBM and Swing are both actions.

Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Doug
7/30/2007  1:42:00 PM
I stand corrected and agree with what you say, but (swinging) the left side of the body in and through the feather step is an action that gives a left side lead, do we carry this left side position through the downswing and into the first step of the reverse turn. Thanks
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Serendipidy
7/30/2007  4:34:00 PM
Doug. Nobody here wants to mention CBMP on the third step of the Feather. Which you must come out of to continue.The question to be asked now is. Is the third step a foot position only. Have fun.
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by anymouse
7/30/2007  8:12:00 PM
"The question to be asked now is. Is the third step a foot position only."

No.

While the foot swings across the body, the body is moving across the floor during the entirity of the figure. This means that the size of the third step (measured from footprint to footprint) becomes the sum of the distance achieved by placing it across the body PLUS the rather large travel of the body across the floor which occurs at the same time.

A beginner who cannot yet sustain body movement will of course have only the distance achieved by stepping across their body. If they try to step more than across their body, they will no longer be in CBMP body position - the size of a champions step here is not caused by the travel of his foot relative to his body, it's caused by the huge continuing travel of his body across the floor.
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Doug
7/31/2007  8:18:00 AM
Yes by the second compression from the left knee and ball of foot.
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by Serendipidy
7/31/2007  4:19:00 PM
I can`t understand why you guys discuss the pro`s and con`s of a step when all you have to do is get your DVD out at see for yourself. You have heard that story how in ancient Greece these learned professors were argueing about how many teeth there are in a horses mouth. One young student said why dont we find a horse and count them.
Was the question. Is there Sway on the first step of a Reverse Turn after the Feather.Go and have a look and you will find there isn`t. Then go to your technique book and double check if you are in any doubt and you will find there isn`t any mention of Swing or Sway on step one.
Heres one to play with. Richard Gleave. Waltz. First three of a Natural. Drive on one. Swing on two. Sway at the end of three. Now lets go down to the stable.
Re: Swing in international Foxtrot
Posted by anymouse
8/1/2007  6:27:00 AM
"Heres one to play with. Richard Gleave. Waltz. First three of a Natural. Drive on one. Swing on two. Sway at the end of three."

Except of course that what your are quoting is only a very rough guideline.

Some sway will have develped by the end of step one. Not as much as will have occured later, but it will already have begun.

And the actual swing - that begins in step 1 too, because the upswing is nothing more than the natural followthrough from the downswing of the previous step 3.

But you associated the swing with step two because that's where it's most obvious, and the sway with the end of step 2 and start of step 3 because that is where the sway is most obvious.

It's just that were it's most obvious is not the only place where it occurs.

And why doesn't the book mention sway on step 1? Because it only comes in just before the end. Similarly, it mentions sway on step 3, even though in fact it's likely to be gone before the very end.

An approximation has to leave out some of the details - but if you don't want to look like a robot, those details left out of the approximation had better be present in your dancing!
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