Hi

I'm new to Foxtrot and I'm puzzle by the count of the step.

Slow - Slow Quick Quick or 1- 1 1/2 and 1/2 ?

but it is a 4/4 ?!

How should i count ?

Thnaks

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You're right, Don. The approach you outline is used at advanced (sc. International Standard) levels. Check any number of Blackpool Dance Congress videos featuring Hillier, Sinkensen, etc. Or, if you're really ambitious, book a lesson with them when they're over here.

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This is a reply to Bos:
You can find out about foxtrot on the web, but you'd need a good dance teacher to be able to dance it even reasonably.
the dance gets its name from a guy called Sydney(i think) Fox, who invented it in the 1920's
As the for music, Dronak is right about many frank Sinatra songs being gorgeous foxtrots. My own favourite is "without a song" recoerded with the Tommy Dorsey orchestra in 1940. However, this isn't much help to you, since you probably won't find this on the internet. so here's a link to some more modern ones:
http://www.dancelifeinternational.com.au/ItemList.asp?Type=5

Hope this works
The page gives you lots of dance CDs. Look for "Best of Ballroom Music Part 1" and click on the foxtrot tunes. You'll get a chance to hear typical foxtrot music.

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Originally posted by Bluestep:
Hi

I'm new to Foxtrot and I'm puzzle by the count of the step.

Slow - Slow Quick Quick or 1- 1 1/2 and 1/2 ?

but it is a 4/4 ?!

How should i count ?

Thnaks

The basic foxtrot that I know is Slow (2 beats), Slow (2 beats), Quick (1 beat), Quick (1beat).

The way you were counting each basic ends up being 3 beats, and the way I'm doing it ends up being 6 beats. Neither of these really match 4/4 time, do they?

However, if you do two basics the way I count then you end up with 12 beats, or three measures (4 beats per measure), and your next step is on the "1" of the fourth measure. Basically part of the time you aren't starting on the one beat, but on the three beat.

Does that help?

Kevin

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Regarding Foxtrot Timing.It is as I was always taught easier to count a Slow which has two beats as Slow and. And being the second beat. A Reverse turn which has a Feather Finish at the end , is Slow and. Quick Quick. Slow and. Quick Quick. finishing with another Slow and. This of course the International style. If you wish the Slows can be counted as 1 2. and the Quicks 3 4.There is a problem for beginners and that is to make sure you are dancing with the music
which is not 3 4. 1 2. but 1 2.3 4.The former is dancing out of rhythm .

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CBMP = Contrary Body Movement Position. It's not a very easy topic to explain so try the dictionary on this site (I'm pretty sure one exists) or look for threads on it here (I wouldn't be surprised if we've covered it before).

I wouldn't really call foxtrot an upbeat dance, not like swing/jive and quickstep are. Foxtrot has more of a strolling/walking feel to it. It's kind of an easy going dance, smoothly flowing along.

Foxtrot songs -- many Frank Sinatra songs are foxtrots, I believe. Medium tempo, flowing music that's in 4.

I realize this may be a bit vague, but I hope it's of some help. If you search around the web some more, I bet you can find more information. Good luck.

--
James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

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Remember that group who used to sing "Look what the've done to my song Ma". I attended a lecture just reciently when the lecturer , a former International Dancer demonstrated the way some top dancers are dancing the Feather Step , Foxtrot of course. Introductory step on one beat 4. Contra Body movement only on 1. Heel
lead on beat 2 followed by Quick Quicks in the normal manner. In other words the feet are moving on quicks with the use of the body taking up one beat also. Try it,its great.But I wonder , what next?.

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I realize that you can count in the way you want and in the language you like as long as you make your step and I believe that at advanced level, a slow doesn't always mean 2 beats, it could be more or less depending on dancer's interpretation. I did see world class dancer did SQQ on more than 4 counts and they stay more then 3 beats on a slow.... as well as Q could be extended to more than one beat...

However, at beginner level, for learning purpose, personnally, I tend to agree with Phil that counting AND (after slow) may be confusing for some. I prefer to count only when I actually make steps. Thus when I hold for more then one count, it's just a simple sloooooowww, or if I want to know how long I need to hold, than I'll count slow,2,3... (it's just a personal choice) In fact, this apply pretty well to step such as "chasse", for example, I will count SQandQ because I do step on the AND and it's 1/2 beat or half beat, and where S is hold 2 beats... and this is not only applied to foxtrot but as well to waltz, tango, quickstep..

at last, I read interesting discussion about counting at

http://www.dancesport.uk.com/tid-bits/
Issue 4: "a and &"

[quote]When we split a beat and add an extra step, this is commonly referred to as "syncopation". This "split beat" can be danced as "a" or "&". The beat value of "a" is ¼ while "&" represents ½ beat. It is also very important to remember that "a" or "&" belongs to the beat that is before and not after.[quote]

So when no step are added then ... I just enjoy the music.

cheers,

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To Phil Samways regarding the name Foxtrot. It is the only dance named after a person. Harry Fox a well known American vaudeville star. He performed these tricky little steps on stage in the show Ziegfeld Follies" in New York in 1913.
You can find the history of all the dances on www.ballroomdancing.com.au Somebody did a fantastic amount of re -search here.

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me dont like foxtrot

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To KC Forget the Latin Rhythms when talking Modern, or as it is called now Standard, To count a Feather Step and Reverse Turn as Slow And. Quick Quick. Slow And Quick Quick Slow And Quick Quick and so on. The Slow taking one Beat, and And taking also one beat I find much better than counting 12. 3 4. The main problem with the Foxtrot seems to be that the person moving backwards, that is the lady in the Feather Step, or the man in the Wave, is the golden rule is forgotten, and that is, as the moving foot passes the suporting foot the knee of the supporting foot must flex, or if you like bend towards your partner as the heel touches the floor. This is clearly explained on the John Woods and Anne Lewis tape on the Foxtrot.Also explained, stand on the supporting foot longer.Anyway it was good good to hear your commemts. Happy Dancing. All the way from Australia. Don.

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In response to Don-- I'm afraid I have to strenuously disagree with you here Don! To use the word "and" in this fashion is a very bad habit indeed for anyone to get into.

When we (dancers) talk about the timing of music and use the word "and" it is understood the world over that we are inferring a syncopation, or in other words a half beat taken from the prior count. For example to say in Cha Cha "1, 2, 3, 4, and 1" Here the word "and" means that the 4 count is split into two beats, both of which in this case are danced. This is a syncopation. If you were to say to almost any dancer that you dance foxtrot S and QQ...it would be very confusing indeed. I would have to think it meant you were counting 2 beats,1/2 beat, 1/2 beat, 1 beat, 1 beat. Which is 5 steps and of course, not correct at all, and not your intention.

However, while I disagree with your method I applaud your intent. Moving through the 2 count of a slow is a bane of many foxtrot dancers. I have found that many dancers respond well to having one word to say (or to think of) for each beat. It helps them stay on time. For instance, instead of saying...
sl-ow, quick, quick...it works well to say something relevant to the movement such as counting "slow, hold, quick, quick" or "slow, sway, quick, quick" or etc., where the additional word signifies the 2 count of the slow. This satisfies the same aim I think as your use of the word "and" but avoids the confusion with existing terminology.

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If your assignment is to find out whether you can learn ballroom dancing strickly from information/instruction available from the web, I'd like to know your conclusions when your are done.

If your assignment is to learn a dance, say foxtrot, without taking a class lesson. Then you can go to any of the dance halls and ask the organizers to introduce you to someone who can help. In the Toronto area there is the Westway, 351 Evans Ave., Etobicoke 416-255-6925, 30 UP, 22 Dorchester, Etobicoke 416-259-1685 and Harmony Club, 231 Milner Ave., Scarborough 416-275-4568, among many others.

Originally posted by bos m. ü:
hello, i was assigned by my school teacher to learn the foxtrot and said it can learned over the net.. can anyone please answer some questions i have?

-may i know what "CBMP" might mean?
-from the name -foxtrot- it sounds like an upbeat dance. is it?
-related to the second question, what kind of songs might it be ompatible with?

i hope someone will answer.. i have little time left.

thanks in advance!

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I have done foxtrot and i have "trotted the fox". Foxtrot can be boring - somehow i have never heard the same thing said of any other dance - but the secret is to dance with a male or female that LIKES (at least not hates) foxtrot or you like to dance to a specific foxtrot song.

Originally posted by okay:

Originally posted by Suzie:
me dont like foxtrot

remind me never to waste one on you

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Sorry Don. The principle of using a second word to count the second beat of a slow is fine but the word AND is already defined as meaning half a beat stolen from the previous step, as KC mentioned, and this applies to standard as well as latin.

Phil; the idea of using two syllables when counting Slow is useful because it generally takes no longer to say Slow than it does to say Quick, so it is very easy fro the difference to disappear.

Our preferred alternative is to count slow-ly, quick, quick, or when exasperated by dancers rushing the steps, Slow-er, quick, quick.

Note, I'm sticking with the standard 2,1,1 timing here. Anything else can come in private lessons for advanced dancers.

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Originally posted by Suzie:
me dont like foxtrot

remind me never to waste one on you

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Foxtrot has many different rhythms. In fact most all dances have different rhythms. It is just that there is usually a rhythm taught to beginners that often becomes a standard for them. The rhythm usually taught to beginners is:

slow, slow quick quick (6 beats of music)

Keep in mind that patterns in dance don't necessarily match measures in music. So even though this rhythmic pattern has 6 beats, it still works with music in 4/4.

Another rhythm often used in Foxtrot is:

Slow quick quick

This rhythm is useful when you want to take a waltz pattern and use it in Foxtrot.

Another rhythmic pattern I like is:

quick quick quick quick quick quick slow

The quick steps are all down with side-together steps. (for the leader, this would be to the left) On the slow you step around your partner.

Then you repeat the pattern

quick quick quick quick quick quick slow

-- but this time stepping to the right

Nightclub Two step (NC2S) is another dance that has different rhytmic patterns, although I seldom see anyone doing anything but quick quick slow with Nightclub Two step. One of my favorite NC2S patterns is a leader's walk around with all slow step steps...or a double slow step (step and hold for two beats) to the left followed by a double slow step to the right (with a lot of swaying action).

A lot of this notion of rhytmic variation I owe to Gene Russo who used to teach at the Elegance Ballroom in San Francisco.

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hello, i was assigned by my school teacher to learn the foxtrot and said it can learned over the net.. can anyone please answer some questions i have?

-may i know what "CBMP" might mean?
-from the name -foxtrot- it sounds like an upbeat dance. is it?
-related to the second question, what kind of songs might it be ompatible with?

i hope someone will answer.. i have little time left.

thanks in advance!

Reply to this message

When we split a beat and add an extra step, this is commonly referred to as "syncopation". This "split beat" can be danced as "a" or "&". The beat value of "a" is ¼ while "&" represents ½ beat. It is also very important to remember that "a" or "&" belongs to the beat that is before and not after.

The word "a" sometimes refers to a time value of a quarter-beat (as in "1-e-&-a..." etc). But it can also refer to a time value of one third of a beat (as in "1-&-a..." etc). This is true of music which is "swung" -- most notably Foxtrot and Swing.

Either way, the "a" count is much closer to the following beat than it is to the previous beat. Mathematically speaking, as "beginner" points out, it is a part of the previous beat. But human beings will tend to percieve it musically as being connected to the following beat.

Regards,
Jonathan

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To Phil Samways. If you go to the technic book, International Style, things can get very complicated, that is hard at first to understand. The Feather Step in the Foxtrot, starting on the mans right has four steps. The last step if followed by a Reverse Turn becomes the first of the Reverse. The Reverse starting on the mans left foot has seven steps finishing with a Slow on the left foot. This is usually followed be a three step which starts on the mans right foot and finishes, Yes you've guessed it on the right foot which can also be the first of the Natural Turn.Actually to dance a good foxtrot one does not need to know most of the above. To get to the main issue I think I should explain again. I find it much easier to count a Slow that is two beats. as Slow And. The Slow being one beat, the And being also one beat.But as Shakespeare said. "A Rose by any other name is still a Rose". Call it whatever you like to call it, just make sure a Slow has two beats.I still take my hat off to the writter of the technic book. Hats off to Alex Moore who put it all together in 1936. Some things have altered but the foot work has not. It is still the same today as it was then..

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