Hi All,
There is a basic figure in the Quickstep called the Natural Pivot Turn. This is a composite figure made up of 1-3 of the Natural Turn and a Natural Pivot. A figure of 4 steps. The Natural Spin Turn is also a composite figure of 6 steps consisting of 1-3 Nat. Turn; step 4 a Nat. Pivot; steps 5 and 6 a Nat. Spin. You can see that a Pivot is one step and a Spin is two steps. Whether the figure is wrongly named is debatable. Yet we have the Double Reverse Spin. Is this wrongly named? We don't have to dance it twice! Any comments?

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I have the history of ballrom dancing.
The Double Revers Spin was intoduce by a Maxwell Stewert in 1922. They were always danced as a double, hence the name. That was the same year that the cross behind in the Foxtrot was substited by the Feather Step. Spinning, and Pivoting. One is centripetal,inner force, the other centrifugal, outer force. There are some wonderful instruction by John Woods and Anne Lewis on this very subject in their video tape.

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"One is centripetal,inner force, the other centrifugal, outer force"
I'm sorry but i don't follow that at all

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Hi Quickstep,
Your ballroom history may not have included the passing of Maxwell. It was wrote: On Saturday, 3rd October, 1964, the dancing world lost one of its greatest characters with the death at Bognor Regis of William Joseph Maxwell Stewart, aged 68. He left a widow and two sons, Joseph and Julian. The figure, Double Reverse Spin, was originally called, a Reverse Spin. All spins are open turns and students to the profession became confused because of the gent closing the feet on the Toe Pivot, but because there is no weight change it was still classed as an Open Turn. The name Double was added at a later stage for a reason I can't give just now. Maybe in the future if someone is interested. Would you please answer phil.samways' query. I'm also curious.

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The double reverse spin an Open turn? I Don't think so! Don't forget that the lady closes her feet because it's a HEEL TURN

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Hi ???,
My reference was made to the gent's and not the lady's foot positions.
"students to the profession became confused because of the gent closing the feet on the Toe Pivot, but because there is no weight change it was still classed as an Open Turn". If you don't agree please keep the thread going. Also, what are your thoughts on the name?

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perhaps i can answer my own question on "inner and outer force" having thought about it a bit more.
In a spin, the front of the man's body is facing the inside of the spin (to the centre of the turn) whereas in a heel pivot, the front of the man's body is facing away.
but aren't there different sorts of pivots?
I'm having to bite my tongue here to avoid saying anything about so-called "centrifugal force".

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The natural pivot turn is a BALL pivot, not a HEEL pivot. The heel is in contact with the floor, but the weight and turn are over the ball of the foot.

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Has anybody tried a Double Reverse Wing.
Which is usually followed by an argument.

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Sad, but funny.

Do you do it with a ronde-like action of the leader's free leg?

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In my opinion the name refers to the amount of turn the man does: up to a 1/1 made "all at once", asuming that the rotation startet with the spin is continued fluently with the toe pivot.
The highest amount of turn in other movements is 1/2 ('pivot'; 1-3 of V. Waltz/Rev.T.) so: at the Double Reverse Spin man dance "double" of normal figures. On the other hand perhaps one day the name could be changed, because there is no other Reverse Spin (it sometimes happens, like "Overturned Turning Lock -> Turning Lock to R").

About pivots: Turning to R: Natural Pivot (bwd step), Pivoting Action (fwd step). Turning to L: Reverse Pivot (fwd or bwd), Toe Pivot, Heel Pivot (former ending of Quarter Turns + Chassé Rev. Turn in Quicktep)
They all have in common: turn is made on one leg AND if it was a bwd step it's followed by a fwd step and vice versa (Swivles are similar but are followed by a fwd step if fwd ...)
Interesting question: in some figures both partners seem to have pivots "at the same time", but that's physically impossible, because the couple is ONE OBJECT, that can't rotate around two parallel axises. Solution: even if the pivots are at the same step#, the axis of the couple changes from man's to lady's foot (i.e. Nat. Pivot Turn) or vice versa (i.e. Reverse Pivot)

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Nothing funny about this step Double Reverse Wing. Steps are pretty much as in the Double Reverse Spin except the lady has to finish on the mans left side as in a Wing. The man`s next step is outside the lady on her left side. Not for the faint hearted.

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Here,here,here!.!. Arent we all forgetting what we had previously opined about?? That being good basics. If we teach and adhere to good basics, then any variation (Pattern) is simply a different spin (Scuse the pun) on the basics to begin with. Inside, outside and heel vs ball are all taught to begin with so, "If you dare" shouldnt be a concern at all but simply "Here's the footwork now go do it but remember the basics"

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