I've no desire to visit a "latino club", but I do enjoy social dancing, and I expect (but often don't get) a balanced programme of all the main dance styles. The variety of my evening's dancing is one of its principle attractions, and I'm not about to feel bashful or ashamed that the Cha Cha, breaking on 2, might not be faithful to elements of the historical roots of the style.

If I had such hangups, I'd never dance a tango again, and would have to give up the jive too, just because the current dance has a history. The waltz will have to go too - they didn't do it like that in 17th C., and in fact, we won't dance a step. The band will just go home, and we will all demand our money back.

Dance is a constantly evolving form: and no one stopping off point on the line of development has any more intrinsic validity than any other - and that has to be true of the starting point too. If there are "clubs" that want to dance living history, I wouldn't want to stop them, but if the MUSIC is saying 234&1 (or 123&4), and anyone in the room is doing the opposite, then they're not dancing at all, IMHO.

So that means that most sequence dancers can't dance (but then I knew that already), and they are deaf (which they very probably are, judging by their average age).

There was no inference that you should !

The explanation was given to the several posters who WERE interested in the origins....

And, something you should know.. I have competed ( all levels ) in ALL styles, Amer. and Intern. and coach and adjudicate in both styles ( also examined ).
Your personal choices are fine by me.. thats NOT the issue.. the discussion ( I thought ) was about relevance.. and its applications that are available in the varying degrees of social and comp. dance .

If you believe that knowing little or nothing about the structure of music.. thats OK.. as a Coach and teacher it is incumbent upon me ,to have ALL the info. at my disposal.. how you choose to partake, is your business .

As to visiting a " latin " venue, your life enriching is surely less ,without the experience .

As you tell us so VERY often, I couldn't be in any doubt about your claims to experience (although, of course, it could be all 100% fantasy, like Polished's claims to erudition), but it really has no bearing at all on the discussion, and the repetition does get rather tedious.

Am I implying that "knowing little or nothing about the structure of music" is OK? Don't think so - although from a dancer's perspective, one could be gloriously ignorant of the history of the musical style, and still be the World's #1 in the current style.

If there actually ARE any "latin" clubs in my home city, I very much doubt that I would come out again other than in a body bag, so I'll pass on that one, thanks, but in another place and time - yes, certainly.

My credentials are quite easily checked.. for openers , I lectured at the IDTA congress on Amer. smooth 2yrs. ago.
if you need any more background ( which is on record ) i can e mail it to you .

How could I need to check? This is a public discussion forum. You may or may not be who you claim to be (but actually I don't know who you do claim to be - and I'm not asking, because it wouldn't make any difference).

If, in another universe, Walter Laird, Victor Silvester, Guy Howard and Alex Moore were all happily discussing the topics of the day, I might be a BIT impressed, but ...

As things stand, we are all free to air our views, and to agree, or, indeed, disagree with one another. If my opinions are sound, I would expect a forum such as this to move towards a consensus of agreement with them, if they are nonsense, I would expect someone to say so, and to say why. I am happy to be judged entirely by what I write. I make no claims which imply that my opinion has greater intrinsic validity than any one else's.

Why would I need to?

YOU were the one that brought my credentials to question ( the comment it could be all fantasy ).. go back and read your own post .

It never ceases to amaze me , when one is challenged in the form of an accusation, the accuser , when confronted , suddenly has no desire to back his claims .

As to posting.. you claim the " right " to express, but seem to not give that same right of challenge to other posts.

That is the very thrust of debate .

I would also add, that your comment about " body bag etc " was to my mind , pejorative and somewhat racial.

You managed in one sentence to degrade the population of numerous latin countries .

Terence, I'm not going to bicker with you: your repeated statements about your credentials are as tedious as they are pointless, and I'm not the first poster to say so.

I don't know who you are. You might be who you say you are (whoever that is), or you might be a sado who has adopted the persona of someone else. Checking the credentials of that "someone else" proves nothing whatever about the poster here who keeps reminding us that they "used to" compete, and that they "used to" examine. I don't care, and I've said why.

As for my supposed "racist" comment - get lost! You don't know the city I'm talking about, and my comment is about the place, not the people. There are so few latinos here, that if there were a club, it would probably just be a front for "white trash" to sell each other sex and drugs. I'll stick to social dancing thanks.

"I wouldn't want to stop them, but if the MUSIC is saying 234&1 (or 123&4), and anyone in the room is doing the opposite, then they're not dancing at all, IMHO.

So that means that most sequence dancers can't dance"

So if the music is saying 123&4 and the sequence dancers are doing the same then surely they are dancing. (Limitations due to age and infirmity permitting, but not all sequence dancers are pensioners.)

I have some friends who dance sequence and social ballroom/latin. They have attended several lessons where the teacher has tried to make them break on 2 and they usually have a problem. At one stage this stressed them so much that they almost gave up social dancing and they certainly stopped the lessons.

They often tell me "We cannot dance on 2" and I usually reply "You just did!". The difference is in the music being played. Give them a good latin rhythm and they will dance on 2 without thinking about it. One of their teachers used to use a sequence album for their beginner classes "because it has a solid beat" quite oblivious to the fact that it was the wrong beat.

Yes, of course they are. I didn't say otherwise. But nearly all "modern" latin music played in venues likely to be frequented by sequence dancers does have the pattern 234&1, so NOT to break on 2 does unforgivable violence to such music. It looks ridiculous too.

The answer has to be to listen, and then to dance. How often have you seen someone waltz 231 231? They keep it up for bars on end, sometimes the whole song - but it's a marvel to behold such determination, or such indifference.

"But nearly all "modern" latin music played in venues likely to be frequented by sequence dancers does have the pattern 234&1"

There I beg to differ. A large proportion of the CDs intended for sequence dancing have chas with the pattern 123&4.

I was listening to a new ballroom latin release today and I'm sure there were some 'universal' chas in there with timing 123&4& to allow either interpretation.