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Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by Polished
12/9/2008  2:37:00 PM
There is no comparison .Compare any clip from around the 60's ( they are black and white ). Then Google Dapenda's Channel. You will be looking at Bizokas and Demidova dancing a Waltz International Style to Brian Watson singing Amore Musica. It is very noticable about the man's right elbow being held much higher which gives a bigger right side when compared with those olden days.
As for the Latin. In the 60's was pretty ordinary and in some cases laughable. Imagine men wearing tails and the ladies in a dress which resembled a Bell Tent. And that Cha Cha and Rumba Has it improved. Just look for yourself.
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by terence2
12/10/2008  5:52:00 AM
So you are convinced that Irvines , Eggeleton et al, wouldnt make the finals ??.... are you nuts or what !!!... Will concede that Latin took a different route, thats why it looks "different ".. however, the skill etc was there, and matched the requirements of the day .

And, what, in your considered opinion,in Standard, is better today ?

Then consider this... True talent can be transplanted to any period of time ( good costuming or bad has little or nought to do with execution.. window dressing at best )
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by Polished
12/10/2008  5:13:00 PM
Terence. I know you have looked at some of the clips otherwise you couldn't have come up with the names which I didn't mention.
In one under, Ballroom Championships in the Sixties. The Walks and the Reverse Fallaway into a Throwaway in the Tango by the winners No 2 would not today make a judge put his pen to paper, ( count 16 bars in ). Then there was a Latin Final which can be found under World Professional Latin and Ballroom Championships 1968 . The same couple in the Cha Cha were not good by any standard, The just didn't have the technique of todays dancers, and their interpretation of the music left a lot to be desired. No I am not nuts. Neither do I wear rose coloured glasses.
I would say that untill Richard Gleave and Michael Barr in Modern and Alan Fletcher in Latin came on the scene poise and posture use of the knees for the modern style and musical interpretation in both wasn't there.
I shudder when I see how they used to cling onto each other in their Pivots with very little knowledge of where the head should be . Google Dapenda's Channel and look at " Arunas Bizokas " and compare today with yesterday.
As I say again. Those early Champions would be hard pressed today to get out of the afternoon sesions at Blackpool
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by terence2
12/11/2008  12:14:00 AM
There has been much discussion of late about phrasing in todays dancers.. they seem to be more obsessed with the "smaller " picture than the larger one .

No.. I didnt read the article, but when you state NO one from before the 70s would make a final, then I find that statement absurd .

Todays "style " has become cookie cutter and predictable ( standard ) and the Latin, is a caricature of stage proportions.. it has lost its way in definition and character ( this is not just my prof opinion.. many top prof feel the same way )

As to techn,...of course it had to change in latin ,due to the absurd nature( in some cases )it became ! .

And do you believe that all the current top pro,s are more perfect in techn ?.. I dont think so .
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by Polished
12/11/2008  3:20:00 PM
Terence. Now you are being clever with your choice of words. The era mentioned is the 60's. You bring the 70's into the equasion by writing before the 70's. Technically that is correct , or is it. Lets stick to one era and one style for this moment in time.
Google The " British Latin and Ballroom Dance Championships 1963 ". The Latin Cha Cha by couple 59. It is pathetic. Would you in even your wildest dreams say otherwise.
And in the Quickstep the same couple 69. Just take a look at those Scatter Chasses. Would that head position and the poise win today. I doubt it. At the end Bob and Doreen didn't look that crash hot either.
Again I say that dancing has improved so much that both you and I would look like a couple of Social dancers at a Saturday night hop dancing the way we used to, rather than a couple of comp dancers..
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by terence2
12/11/2008  10:55:00 PM
First, Bob and Doreen.. you need to remember , they were in their prime in the late 40s and early to mid 50s.. of course they didnt "look " the same.. but.. class comes thru .

And , you picked out one couple who were, for what ever reason, put into the final. As I said.. the Latin HAS changed, no one is denying that.. more to the point, is the new paradigm shift something for the better ? many think not .

As to finalists of ANY era, there is always the possibility that someone has an " off " nite , it happens to the best .

PS.. i was an asst.trainee teacher in Bobs school(briefly)in 52/53?
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by Polished
12/12/2008  5:23:00 AM
Terence. Your memory is failing. Bob danced with his wife Margaret Baker who so tragically died. For some five years or so whilst he was going through the courts he didn't compete.
He then danced with Jeanne Walker and then Eve Barnet before meeting with Doreen who was partner and wife to Bob Ramsey they had just returned from S Africa. This was after 1956.
Do you remember what happend to Margaret Baker.That would have been about 1952.
I did not randomly pick one couple. In the 1963 youtube clip number 59 in the Latin was Bill Irvine. In the Modern number 69 was also Bill Irvine who won both the Latin and the Modern.
By todays standards it was not good as anybody can see for themselves..
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by terence2
12/12/2008  5:54:00 AM
Right.. i had forgotten the previous ladies ( guess i had more to do with Bob )

You get no argument from me on Bills, and 99% of the rest of " latin" proponents.. everyone seemed to ignore walters ideas in respect of frame and hold.. does the word prance come to mind ?... it went down the "road" of ballroom ,and never came back .
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by Polished
12/12/2008  12:49:00 PM
There are on youtube film clips from Pathe News reels going right back to the 20's. The further we go back, by todays standard the less impressive the dancing is. Any rise and fall was done through the feet only. They had no idea of how to use the knees at all .If the judges in those early days in competition had seen a couple bending their knees to and angle of 45 degrees in the Waltz and the Foxtrot they would have disqualified them.
I put this on once before. According to Frank Ford who was the first ever Star Ballroom Champion. In 1931 a German competitor arrived at Blackpool for the British. The Tango at that time was very much along the style of English Old Time, very Foxrotting. He strode on the floor with a crisp sharp type of action not seen before. He came absolutely nowhere. But the next day was saturated with requests . Would he demonstrate his Tango in their Studios. Frank who supplied this information was actually there. The Tang as we know it today had its beginning right their.
Re: Has Dancing Improved
Posted by steveontheloose
12/11/2008  3:27:00 PM
with that in mind how silly will the dancers of today look in 2054 a.d.?

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