Heres one for the panel. After the two steps of a Progresive Link in the Tango should we be in a Promenade Position or are we still in a Closed Position. Again I would suggest a video to look at is Dance Vision 4 by Richard Gleave.

Officially you are in promenade position at the end of the second step. However I am sure that some teacher or other has a personal definition of promenade that isn't satisfied until you step through with the inside foot. That's fine, but it's their personal definition, not the universal one used by the professional societies.

Both the outside step in promenade and the inside step through in promenade have unique characteristics of body position that need to be understood and mastered, regardless of what an individual chooses to call them.

I believe what you are seeing, is the body position of the MAN, who appears , as he should be, essentialy in the same alignment..i.e... the LADY creates the " open door " position .

As for prom. in general.. less is more

Terence. All that is neccessary is for the lady to turn her head to her right. The man is already there. The ladies right knee should be on the inside of the man's left knee. And her left knee on the outside of the mans right.. There are several photos of couples that can be found on the Net which show this position..The ladies left foot is on the same line as her right foot see Alex Moore page 274.
From there the first step of the Closed Promenade is in Promenade by stepping one floor board wide, ( keeping the shoulders where they are ), allowing enough room to step through on step two with CBMP.
This I think is one of the most misunderstood moves, and the most misinterpreted.

I have a flash for you .. I was trained by Scrivener.. need I say more ?.. not to mention I have trained many champ level competitors in the past forty something yrs ...

and after teaching ( and examining for 30 plus ) it for over fifty yrs, I would appreciate if you did not try to "lecture " me on its construction, for even tho you attempted to describe the action , you still left out 2 VERY important and significant details .

And remember.. dance is about opinion, and technique is not static .

Terence,

If Scrivener's teachings were so inscrutable then why is the man's book no longer in print?

Also, beating other boarders up with your background is becoming tiresome.

jj

Thank you jofjones! Terence, the measure of a truly GREAT dancer is not who they studied with, or how many students they trained up to champ, etc. The measure of a truly great dancer is someone who knows and understands dance and is able to pass that knowledge along in an intelligible way. I would sincerely appreciate if rather than attempting to hold your years of experience over other people's head, you simply post what your thoughts are on the matter. In this case, you mentioned that you felt that two important details were left out. What were these? In the future, rather than simply talking about your experience, why not elaborate on what you feel was left out in a constructive manner so that we all might learn something and become better dancers as that is the point of this forum.

Why the thin skins all of the sudden? If Terence wants to mention his life's work on the topic, it should be fine with all of the posters. It doesn't help or hinder any discussion, per se, but for newcomers, etc. it's all good information. I have gained respect for nearly everyone who utters something on this board, because I love ballroom dancing, and I can tell they do, too. I consider myself as a guy who knows a ton of steps in a lot of dances and has learned more about proper technique, etc. through this site. I teach on the side because I enjoy it, and people I teach say I'm very good at it. I don't do it for a living and I have no visions of grandeur about being an expert or how good I am on the dance floor. I know my limitations and I would like to get better, when I have the time to do so. For my investment of time on this site, though, terence is excellent in my book, as are most of the regular contributors.
With all of the stress in other places in our lives, exchanging ideas and thoughts about dancing is not a place you'd expect to see tension.
Be glad we have the skill sets and health to be able to do this. Enjoy, my friends.

dheun,

Terence did not simply mention "his life's work on the topic." He invoked his experience and training in a hostile manner as what is known in rhetoric as an "appeal to authority" and in doing so introduced the tension in this thread. I called him on it.

The exchange of "thoughts and ideas" about any subject usually results in conflict and disagreement which can always be resolved through continued discussion. Slapping someone down by claiming superiority hinders that discussion.

Terence is a big boy; he can take the criticism.

jj

I'm with Terence2 on this one. Polished did appear to lecture him and it was right that he declared his background and experience. Everyone's views are of interest on this board and the regulars among us learn to apply more weight to the views of some than others, usually based on previous posts rather than making assumptions based on nicknames etc.

I don't recall seeing posts by Polished before, but he seems to have very similar views and attitudes to Serendipidy. He also uses the same reference book.

@Polished: I have not seen the video you mention. Are you saying that Richard Gleave says the link ends in closed position?

Being pedantic, I would say the figure ends in fallaway position as we are moving backwards, but since the next step is most likely to be forward then PP is probably the most appropriate description.

"The ladies left foot is on the same line as her right foot see Alex Moore page 274."
I obviously do not have the same edition as page 274 in my copy deals with a different figure. I did find a similar comment on the description of the Progressive Link as Lady, but with a subtle but vital difference.

Referring to step 2, "It is actually placed on the same line of dance as the 1st step."

Note, same line of dance, not same line as right foot. Placing the LF on the same line as the RF probably would appear to be in closed position.

"This I think is one of the most misunderstood moves, and the most misinterpreted."

Now there I have to agree!