This is a continuation of the thread entitled "Posture and Contact..."
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WARNING
The following message is not for the faint of heart. It contains graphic images of actual world
finalists of English heritage and training, dancing a basic walking action and showing the moving
leg extending ahead of the body. Certain images are so extreme, they illustrate mid-stride with the
legs extended equally away from the body. Be warned: Vertical pelvises abound. Parental discretion
is advised.

Image #1: Basic walking action sequence. This is actually the forward step on man's LF leading
into a 3-step. The movement is left-to-right.



You'll note that at mid-stride, somewhere around frame 6 or 7, the man's leg is extended well
ahead of the body, and likewise the lady's leg is extended back. As you can plainly see, the
lady's pelvis is vertical and her lower back is not arched. They maintain perfect body contact.

You should also notice that the legs divide equally over frames 1-6, then retract almost equally
over frames 8-10.

Images #2&3: Mid-stride position. Image on the left is in promenade position. Image on the right
is in closed position, and appears to be step 6 of a Reverse Wave.



Once again, we can see that the legs are extended ahead of the body in both photos. We can't see
how far the back leg is extended behind the body in the promenade photo, but the movement is quite
obviously forward and the front leg is well ahead of the body. The lady's pelvis is most visible,
and clearly unaffected by the leg extension.

In the photo of the wave, we see a nice basic mid-stride position. Actually, I suspect the
photographer didn't catch the fullest extent of the stride, but it's good enough at any rate.
The moving leg of both dancers is extended ahead of the body. And although the lady's leg extends
forward, you can see that it has not caused the man to arch his lower back. As a matter of fact,
his back is remarkably straight from shoulder to the top of his thigh... the mark of a true
champion. This is a beautiful Wave, and a perfect example of mid-stride. The legs are extended
equally away from the body.

BE ADVISED: These types of images are extremely common. Photos of English finalists and
champions in mid-stride position can be found all over the internet. Pick a name -- Hilton,
Barricci, Howson & Bolton, Wood & Lewis, Hawkins & Newberry -- a quick Google search will produce
dozens of images of all of the above, in all of their British-ly trained glory, showing legs
extended equally (or extending, if you happen to catch a video clip).

Don't be surprised if you happen to observe this phenomenon occurring in other countries as well.
Apparently nobody is safe... Germans, Americans, Italians, Canadians, French... leg division
appears to be afflicting champion ballroom dancers the world over. Isn't there anything that can
be done???

Until we find a cure...

Playfully,
Jonathan

Jonathan,

I think you will agree that none of the posted pictures show situations where there is the slightest risk of the moving leg colliding with the partner's crotch.

As such, they are interesting, and do show a greater leg division than I would have generally prefered. Thus they are educational, and were no doubt chosen because they show an unobstructed view of the moving leg - but because it is also an unobstructed position of the moving leg, they cannot be assumed to demonstrate how those dancers would take a step into an obstructed position with the right leg.

I think if you take the first step and mentally project his right leg to the other side of hers, you will see that it would in fact collide with her crotch if her hips remain in the present position. Something would have to change for an inside step - either his leg less in advance, or their hips held further apart.

However the three step and its preceding walk are also an interesting case by themselves. In effect, they are as much two steps borrowed out of tango as anything in common with the rest of foxtrot. In order to set up something of a right side lead without losing the leftwards stretch of the hold, it is necessary to take the left foot step into a position approaching CBMP. We can see this in the closed appearance of the man's thighs - were his hips not contrary to the step, that much leg division would show the thighs open. This is important because it implies that the following right step will, like tango, have a large sideways component, being really something of a diagonal step. Because of this same side lead, the right foot step is more in parallel with the partner's, and not towards her body the way an ordinary right foot heel lead with CBM would be. In tango this "twisted" nature of the walks is precisely what lets us extend our legs ahead of our body without interference (and it's lack why square beginner tango feels and looks so awkward). Presumably, if it makes space for leg extension in tango it would do so as well in foxtrot.

I don't know that I would personally use that extra space at this point in my career, preferring instead to concentrate on improving the action of the more common obstructed case. But it is an interesting point that the freedom to extend the leg further exists in certain circumstances.

In general though, we would need to see a right foot step one with CBM to really understand how these dancers would execute that - and yes, it will be harder to see the position of the leg with the partner's body there.

The mistake you're making here is the assumption that one partner's crotch is an obstruction to the other's moving leg. That may well be true if your partner is a foot shorter than you, but for a normal difference in height, it's not.

Most successful standard partnerships have a height difference of within 6 to 9 inches, a difference which is diminished by the lady's high heels, as well as the fact that either person can adjust their overall height through the usage of their knees -- hence I can have the same experience dancing with my partner whether she's in flats or 4-inch heels (She may dance a little higher in her legs and I a little lower when she's in flats, but it's an automatic adjustment that we make, with no conscious thought).

The greater the height difference, the more difficulties you will have, and hence there may have to be some trade-offs. In such a situation I may well be inclined to shorten my stride slightly when stepping forward on my RF between my partner's feet, or back on my left when my partner steps between my feet. But again, it's not something I actually think about doing -- it just happens as a natural reaction to accommodate circumstances. And it still doesn't cause me to have to literally keep my foot under my body, which amounts to never taking anything larger than a Rumba-sized step. As I've been saying all along, it's a matter of how much the leg moves ahead of the body, not whether or not it does.

More to the point, the RF step between partner's feet is a unique circumstance. It is the only circumstance for which this "obstruction" is a consideration (and only when the height difference is considerable), and shouldn't dictate the technique of movement in general... especially if that technique involves "making a sacrifice".

There's no argument that the English technique (or book technique, or both) is more vertical with a faster body-to-foot speed and later lowering than the alternative -- Italian, American, or whatever you want to call it. But I think you have a misperception about the technique itself. Even the most English of English is not a foot held under the body. You may find that it helps you to *think* that way in order to keep your foot from being too reachy, but it's not what's truly happening. If it was, you'd be literally tripping over your feet. If you'd like to take a video of your dancing, I'll convert it to Quicktime so that we can watch it frame by frame and I can prove it to you.

As for a photo of a RF walk for analysis, I think I can find one that's clear enough for our purposes. I might even be able to find one from the same video clip. But I'll have to get back to you on that, because it's fairly time consuming to do, and I've already spent more time than I should on this topic.

Regards,
Jonathan

I could just as easily point out that the mistake you are making is assuming you won't collide with a same height partner.

In fact you will, because you leg is not a zero-thickness line hinged at the inseam. Instead it has thickness - we are looking at the top of your thigh potentially colliding with the bottom of hers. Also the hinge point is substantially higher (it's also a little bit back, but mostly it's higher).

In a partnership with an difference in inseam heights, the shorter persons forwards step will have more room, and the taller persons will have less.

Yet dancing with the English technique, I now have no problem taking full steps even with a drastically shorter partner - because I am never trying to swing a leg into her space.

While this primarily applies to right foot steps with CBM, something related also applies to left foot actions with strong CBM - get the foot too much ahead of the body and the knee becomes trapped on a path outside the partner's leg. It is similarly necessary to keep the foot closer to the body here, so that the path of movement can go inside the partner even as the left toe actually lands outside their foot.

A general thought on looking for things like this in videos: sometimes technical principles are more clearly demonstrated by the consequences of their abscence on the performance of ordinary dancers, than by their masterful but subtle application by champions.

Also, the need to keep the moving foot close to the body applies to outside partner steps as well. Here it is the hips which could collide, creating the dreaded "four hips wide" position. Keeping the foot closer to the body is a key component of keep the thigh contact closer to the front and thus keeping the same relative body positions as for an inside step.

So, tallying up, we've got:

Potentially Obstructed:
Inside right foot steps w/o side lead
Outside right foot steps
Strongly turning left foot steps
Left foot steps in left side outside position

Unobstructed:
Less turning left foot steps
Right inside steps with side lead
promenade outside foot

Uncertain:
promenade inside foot

Looks to me like the potentially obstructed cases are far more numerous. They also include the all important first impression steps like the natural turn and feather.