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Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous
12/5/2006  6:18:00 PM
"Anonymous. Both cannot travel on the same line."

Yes they can - in fact they MUST!

"The lady must be able to step outside exactly as the man does on a Feather Step."

This is created by CBMP shape. But both bodies continue to travel in the exact same direction as each other!

On the Wave the man must not block the ladies path.Just as the lady must not on the ordinary Feather Step where the man is on the outside of the lady.
Desciption of the Feather Step.
RF forward turning body to the right.
LF forward preparing to step outside partner.
RF forward outside partner
LF in line with partner
Follow this with a Three Step all in line.
Now you tell me how can the lady be expected to step outside if the man holds the same line. Or the other way around if it is a Feather Step with the man in front. The person going backwards always gives way to the person going forward.

Reply to this message
"
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Don
12/5/2006  8:47:00 PM
Anonymous. We've been through this before but you don't seem to be able to grasp that whoever is going forward their left shoulder will lead. If this is a Feather Step into a Reverse Turn the position that the lady has on the man's right side will not change What will happen is like a ball as it rotates the opposite side remains the opposite side. So the lady is moved to the man's right without changing her position on the man's right hip. In other words she is behind the man on their line of flight which is diagnal to the centre. After the third step with CBMP both bodies will rotate to a neutral position Ready for the first step of the Reverse Turn with CBM.
It's at this point that you said the shoulders stays still and the hips turn to the left anti- clockwise. Since then you have changed your story concerning the twisting of the hips, call it turn or torque or rotate whatever you like to call it.Trying to hold that left side leading into a Reverse Turn is not on anymore. Although some teachers who should have known better did teach that way. It was never right, but for some who couldn't or wouldn't use their sides, with CBM or CBMP but straight ahead on the Feather, no curve as there is supposed to be taught that way, and obviously still do.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous
12/6/2006  9:48:00 PM
"Anonymous. We've been through this before but you don't seem to be able to grasp that whoever is going forward their left shoulder will lead."

No - you simply get confused about the implications of a left shoulder lead. You imagine a trading of places which MUST NOT OCCUR if the figure IS NOT A TURN.

"So the lady is moved to the man's right without changing her position on the man's right hip. In other words she is behind the man on their line of flight which is diagnal to the centre."

Because she remains in the same place on his hip, "she" is not behind him, but still in front of him. Perhaps you are confused about what "she" is and what "he" is. In terms of position, the part of her that matters is still in front of him. Yes, their heads are stretched so that his is further along in progression than hers, but "she" is still in front of "he". Otherwise they would have traded places - which is to say, initiated a turn.

"After the third step with CBMP both bodies will rotate to a neutral position Ready for the first step of the Reverse Turn with CBM."

You persist in that error... There will be no nuetralization there in a properly danced reverse action, as the left side lead remains until step 2. But you will need to consult with better teachers to learn this... there are some very real difference in expertise between quaterfinalists and those who train champions.

"It's at this point that you said the shoulders stays still and the hips turn to the left anti- clockwise. Since then you have changed your story concerning the twisting of the hips"

No I haven't... that you persistently think so reveals either that you do not read carefully, or you have simply gotten bored to the point where you find it entertaining to tell LIES about what others have posted.

"Trying to hold that left side leading into a Reverse Turn is not on anymore. Although some teachers who should have known better did teach that way."

Perhaps it was knowing that this was actually the PROPER way to do things that got them and now their students to the top of the top?

You argue mass market teaching materials against the reality of what the worlds best do and teach in private... and then admit that you have never even attempted to seek such private consultation yourself. In other words, you don't know what you are talking about.

Get some lessons with the best. Not the near best, the best. And then come back here when you are on the path to real learning.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Don
12/7/2006  1:07:00 AM
Anonymous.The lady is always to the right side of the man. Never in front.
Just for aguments sake have the man facing the centre with the lady backing the centre but to his right side.The man turns 1/4 turn to the right. where would you say the man is and the lady in relation to each other. I said facing the centre because you have trouble grasping the situation.It could just as well be diagnal to the centre which is where it should be. The result will be exactly the same. The lady is on the man's right side and the man is to the left which is the way they are travelling. Surely you can understand that. The amount of turn between the partnership is enough to enable the man to get the left side leading and the subsequent CBMP on the third step.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous
12/7/2006  8:33:00 AM
"Just for aguments sake have the man facing the centre with the lady backing the centre but to his right side.The man turns 1/4 turn to the right. where would you say the man is and the lady in relation to each other."

That depends on if they have TURNED (changed direction of progression) or if they have ROTATED (cbm'd with no change of progression yet).

In the TURN case, the man will pass the lady.

in the ROTATION case, the lady remains on the whole ahead of the man, however the man will now be stretching his head and to an extent left side past her.

In the turn case, the man traveled past the lady. In the rotation case, he stretches past her, but has not actually passed her.

In a natural turning figure, step one achieves the stretched past result of CBM rotation, but the actual TURN or MOVING PAST does not occur until step 2. In something like a feather, you only have the CBM/stretch past on step one, because you do not seek to actually pass your partner and change direction on step two. That's basically the difference between a natural and a feather - step one is fairly similar in either case, but step two is entirely different (which has slight implications for a difference in the end of step one)
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Don
12/13/2006  6:27:00 PM
Anonymous. Get a golf ball. Put a mark to the left and then one on the right. The left is the man. Turn rotate or even bowl it along the ground. The positions will not change. Find your direction then rotate, if you want to tell where the lady is in relation to the man as well as the direction, you have it in your hand.
For the rest I can only say. Well. What have I been saying.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous
12/13/2006  9:34:00 PM
"Anonymous. Get a golf ball. Put a mark to the left and then one on the right. The left is the man. Turn rotate or even bowl it along the ground. The positions will not change. Find your direction then rotate, if you want to tell where the lady is in relation to the man as well as the direction, you have it in your hand.
For the rest I can only say. Well. What have I been saying."

Dancers are not "points". Instead they are objects much larger than the distance between each other. Your analogy is fatally flawed, because it ignores this.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous
12/14/2006  2:47:00 AM
Anonymous. Put the two dots on the golf ball a little closer then.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous
12/15/2006  4:53:00 PM
"Anonymous. Put the two dots on the golf ball a little closer then."

Again, dancers are not "dots"

They are not collected into single points, instead the have substantial size. And the body does not rotate as a single unit either (you will fail to understand that part).

These things together permit some rotation of part of the body to occur, without one dancer actually passing the other.
Re: foxtrot reverse wave
Posted by Anonymous 1.
12/15/2006  8:39:00 PM
Anonymous. Your not trying to tell me that in a revolving door all parts don't remain the same distance from each other.. Are you.

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