Dave. Why don't you get your two quicks ( second and third step ) of the Feather Step right on the beat.
Again you can count I would hope. So watch and count for yourself.
Do the same with your Reverse Turn if that is what you can see on a video. If you haven't got an istruction video. Then you are flying blind and can't possibly discuss any step in any dance. When I say video I am refering to either an insruction or a competition. Not Dancing with the Stars.
One more thing. I take it you have looked at the instuctions on this site. If you can see what appears to be a slight delay at the end of the first step. It isn't . What you are seeing is the use of the whole foot right to the toe. Do you agree with that ?
Whilst you are placing the second step remember your third step is in CBMP. So where is your body weight. The line of your shoulders and what is more important. Where is your partner at this point. Go and look for yourself. Best of luck there.
Many other things are involved. Is your partner falling away from you through not understanding what is required of her.
A sure way of finding out is straight down the floor , all heal leads in an extended hold. If there is any shunting or anything wrong with the steps it will soon show up. Then the hardest of all is with body contact , hands by your sides and go. This is standard practise in some studios.

"Dave. Why don't you get your two quicks ( second and third step ) of the Feather Step right on the beat."

Because putting the second quick on the beat is VERY VERY WRONG.

Do that and you will create a stop and go look, nothing like the nature of foxtrot.

The second quick is in reality danced substantially after its nominally corresponding beat.

"I take it you have looked at the instuctions on this site. If you can see what appears to be a slight delay at the end of the first step. It isn't . What you are seeing is the use of the whole foot right to the toe. Do you agree with that ?"

Actually, what you are seeing is the body failing to catch up with the overstride in the placement of the initial step. If the intital step were placed where the body flight were directing it, you would not see that "dead body" pause. The foot would still be employed, but you would not notice it as it would be part of a more seamless and natural action.

"Whilst you are placing the second step remember your third step is in CBMP. So where is your body weight."

Supported by the standing foot but overblanced beyond it, as the body center is outside the footprint of the standing foot long before the receiving foot is able to take any weight.

Quickstep, if you think the second quic is right on the third step you should stop giving advise on this website. I asked for advice not if I know how to count. >

"Quickstep, if you think the second quic is right on the third step you should stop giving advise on this website. I asked for advice not if I know how to count. "

There could be some terminology confusion here.

It is quite common to refer to the third step of a foxtrot figure as the 2nd quick, as that is indeed the second step with such a given nominal time value.

HOWEVER, the reality is clear that this step is danced (placed & weighted) substantially after the corresponding musical beat (4th beat/4th quick).

Quicksteps comment about putting both quicks on the beat hints that he or she is not yet aware of this essentially universal technical detail.

If a person cannot work out that the first quick is the second step and so on in the Foxtrot Feather Step, then if they get into the Rumba international style they are in trouble with the timing. You know, first step second beat.
Back to the Foxtrot. I must be missing something here. If the third step is the second quick( which it is ). "As this is indeed the second step .
Which is it?. Has it now become the second step? . By using the word nonimal is this none participation. This is worse than the Da Vinci Codes.
If the two quicks are put right on the beat. The slows can look after themselves. Dance behind the beat you will be chasing the music. Dance in front of the beat and you are out of time.
If you like to pay more attention to the slows and let the quicks look after themselves it is better to count the slow not as slow and. But call it Slowly. By the time you get to the Y you should be in a neutral position with the LF passing under the body. You will notice I use the word should, which doesn't neccesarily mean have to Might be worth remembering that when dancing any figure. Play around with the timing too much and the Choreography will not be readable. If a Fallaway Slip Pivot is danced I should be able to see exactly what your interpretation of the timing is. If they are all quicks. Better to get those quicks right on the button. Which brings us right back to dancing on the beat. Does that make sense. Go and have a look for yourself on this web site. Don't forget to double click the screen to get the full picture.

"Better to get those quicks right on the button."

The first quick BUT NOT THE SECOND. The second quick lands somehwat after beat four - look around enough and you'll even find that even Jonathan has said that.

"Go and have a look for yourself on this web site. Don't forget to double click the screen to get the full picture."

Indeed. While you are at it, count the number of video frames between the steps. You will find that they are almost exactly evenly distributed - about 20 frames each, which is 1/3 of a measure. That means that ONLY ONE OF THE STEPS CAN BE SQUARELY ON A BEAT, and that is universally recognized to be the SECOND STEP on the THIRD BEAT.

Go to the Feather Step in Learn the Dances. Listen to the narration which is right on the count.
I find it just a little bit off putting to try to work out 20 frames or a third of a measure and I don't know why anybody would want to.
On a Reverse Weave do you try to step anywere other than right on the beat.
Are you one of those who still dances to 32 bars a minute. Or are you up to date and dance 28 bars a minute. It might make a difference.
I can't see that the second quick can be behind the beat. From there we have to prepare for the Reverse by going into a neutral position ( balance point ). Unless the first of the Reverse is going to have one beat only. I'm sure that has been tried somewhere along the line.

"I find it just a little bit off putting to try to work out 20 frames or a third of a measure and I don't know why anybody would want to."

For the simple reason that the care to know the TRUTH about what was done in a particular video clip. If they'd rather maintain their treasured miconceptions, then they should avoid doing this!

(I will point out that the clip on this website was danced without music. Try comparing to some videos with and you will still find the general three equal divisions of the measure between the foot weightings)



You bet! Especially on the weave ending.

"Are you one of those who still dances to 32 bars a minute. Or are you up to date and dance 28 bars a minute. It might make a difference."

At the slower tempo, placing the steps musically rather than beginner-metronomically is even more important.

"I can't see that the second quick can be behind the beat."

Then you are extremely ignorant of proper dance technique.

OK. I went into counting frames off a Video. From a solo Feather Step by the current British Champions.
Starting to count from the time that the RF was behind the LF untill the RF is in CBMP with the left foot behind. 44 frames. The count stopped as the man straightened the right knee still on the toe. Body weight has not arrived and the weight is split. It is amazing what can be seen if one knows what to look for.
For instance the reflection of the shoe on the floor. It can be seen what is happening there.
I could have started counting as the feet were parallel and finished with the feet parellel.
You will have noticed that the turn on the Reverse was not as the step is taken, but at the end of the step.
You will have noticed that the left shoulder is not leading into the turn.
You will have noticed that they finish the second and third step square backing the LOD.
Can it be seen that the initial drive on the first of the Feather only takes two frames out of 44. Those who believe each step is of equall length could be in for a surprise along with the lifting of the feet.
This is how a step or steps can be dissected. So go for it.
Is there a point of balance or if you like a neutral position at the end of the second quick as the toe lowers. Go and have a look.

"Starting to count from the time that the RF was behind the LF untill the RF is in CBMP with the left foot behind. 44 frames."

Well first of all, you obviosly cannot have counted frames, as 44 frames is 1.4 seconds of US rate video and even longer than that at UK frame rate. Well more than the duration of even the slow, and you are describing the foot positions of the second quick.

So let's assume you somehow managed to count fields instead of frames. That gives you about .7 seconds, which (at the full precision calculation) works out to ONE THIRD OF A MEASURE at 27 mpm.

Which is pretty much exactly what I said yesterday - the second quick takes a third of a measure.

Which means that both quicks cannot possibly land on the beat.

You appear to have either made a totally erroneous measurement, or to have proven my point rather than yours...