lluv2Dance. Regarding dancing in Rhythm.We can all go to youtube and look for ourselves. If you can point me to any of our top performers who dance out of Rhythm then I am listening. The Foxtrot is the dance that has been the most mentioned.
If we go to Latin and the Rumba. Is one a robot for dancing on the correct beat and in time with the music.
In the Waltz you wouldn't dream of dancing step two of a natural on beat one would you.
It would seem a couple of you with years of dancing between you have been doing it wrong in the Foxtrot, which would indicate your time has been spent on the Social scene and not in competition..
No disrespect intended. But harsh words are needed sometimes...

Don,
I'm not sure what you are implying. Do you mean myself and Terrence2 are just social dancers? I think you know better than that.

As for dancing step 2 of a Nat on beat 2, is just silly. Please read, Phil's excellent definition on 'RHYTHM' and then your own.

lluv2Dance. The word Rhythm is used in a broad sense and usually refers to the accentuated beats of the music which recur regularly. These dance orchestra leaders I dont think play that strong one , a weaker two , a stronger three but not as strong as one and a not so strong four so that you can dance everything back to front.
Would you agree that music came first and then dance to fit the music and not the other way around.
If I have understood you correctly you are of the opinion that I can dance on whatever set of beats that I like.Tell me . In the Foxtrot do you deliberately do your introductory step on 1 2 and the first of your Feather on 3 4. If you do why. And if you don't then you are dancing in the correct Rhythm. Bit of a trap that one.
Surely your advise here to the readers is not to take off without any regard for the music on any beat they feel like.
I've just been looking at the very excellent demonstration of the Bolero at the opening page. What do you know. Eight bar phased and the leading steps on the first beats of the bar of music. Would you dance it any different to that rhythmwise.

I'm afraid this post has become too deep for me. So what I'm going to do is run away, screaming of course.

Hi serendipity
I'm not sure what exactly your point is. Nobody would deliberately dance the first step of a waltz natural turn on beat 2. In foxtrot i think most would be uncomfortable starting a feather step on step 3. but you might not start a feather step exaclty on beat 1. We've had this discussion before.
Music did come before dancing, (Or did it?)but i don't agree with you on
""These dance orchestra leaders I dont think play that strong one , a weaker two , a stronger three but not as strong as one and a not so strong four so that you can dance everything back to front.""""
If you listen to the 'standards' (Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Gershwin etc) sung by, for example Ella Fitzgerald, you will hear PRECISELY that, in a subtle way. It's the nature of the music, and hence of the dance. Foxtrot is a beautiful dance because there is so much you can do with the music.

"If I have understood you correctly you are of the opinion that I can dance on whatever set of beats that I like."

That's overstating it a bit, in that most wouldn't take arbitrary leeway, but it is ultimately true.

You can do whatever you want, provided that you KNOW what character will result from your decision, and that you have CHOSEN that character to SKILLFULLY build part of a greater whole.

This is very different from placing something arbitrarily or carelessly against the music because you either don't know that you are doing it or don't care what will happen as a result.

Ultimatly, it's only "wrong" if you can't "sell" it as part of an overall idea. Even if it's technically "right" in that each individual detail comes literally from the book, it can still be "wrong" if the overall effect is not convincing.

To address that little example, no, we wouldn't generally put the 2nd step of a waltz figure on the first beat. But there are a number of situations where we would put what is ordinarily the first step of a figure at a later point in the music than usual, because we've put another step in front of it. The result isn't simply the ordinary figure displaced, but something new.

Anonymous. If for some reason you do go off the normal beats you must have done it by design and not ignorance, Therefore you would know and have the technique to come back into the correct rhythm at the end of that particular move. But there is no forgiving encouraging dancers to start off on a Feather Step on the man's RF on any other beats other than 1 2 followed by 3 4. Leaving 1 2 for the first of your Reverse movement. Surely you must agree with that. And having agreed you will be dancing on Time in Rhythm and ultimately in Phrase.
For those new to this. Quoting John Wood. In a book we have eight pages to a chapter. Think of each page as one bar of music. Then eight of them completes one chapter. That is called eight bar phrasing which is how dance music, or music we can dance to is phrased. Usually there are 8 chapters on a disk or if you like 64 bars of music.Which have a distinct audible sound on the first bar of every eight.
This is not something new. Even Elvis all those years ago sung to eight bar phrased music.

"If for some reason you do go off the normal beats you must have done it by design and not ignorance, Therefore you would know and have the technique to come back into the correct rhythm at the end of that particular move."

Not necessarily at the end of the move, but at whatever point you decide you want to go back to the 'usual' feel.

For example, you might explore this alternative musical character in the middle of a phrase, but you probably want to line things up again by the end.

If the dancer gets 'lost' in the music such that their idea of the music is determined by what their own feet are doing rather than by what the band is doing - well, that's a dancer who doesn't yet have the skill to attempt anything but the ordinary, obvious relationship of steps to music. And there's no shame in sticking to the ordinary - but it's not the end of the line as far as possibilities for development.

Anonymous. You struck on a good point there. I blame the teachers for most of this. Far to many variations. If you see a Demonstration it is a show. The demonstrators in a competition will not do half of what the do in a show. If you can find your way to Timothy Howson in the 06 Foxtrot final at Blackpool. The camera stays with him for thirteen bars of music all through side one and two and three before it leaves. All he does is a Feather Step. Reverse Turn. Three Step. Feather Step and into a Reverse Wave. We in the meantime would have thrown everything but the kitchen sink into those thirteen bars. The key word is KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

Serendipidy,

Is this the video that you mean?

2006 UK Professional Finals 2-2

jj