"To say again. The book does not say finish a Progressive Link in a Promenade Position."

In fact, the official book DOES say to finish the progressive link in promenade:

"2. RF to side and sightly back in PP"

Remember that 'Ballroom Dancing' is an exploratory book, neither official no rigorous in its descriptions. The official version is derived from Moore's other work, "The revised Technique" and is today published by the ISTD.

It is the same figure, only the official description is more complete to eliminate confusion such as yours.

""To say again. The book does not say finish a Progressive Link in a Promenade Position."

In fact, the official book DOES say to finish the progressive link in promenade:"

So does "Ballroom dancing"!
As lady "Finish in PP and follow with a Promenade figure."

As man, General Notes: "As the 2nd step is taken, the man should bring the R side of the body slightly back, and at the same time turn the lady to PP."

We have been through all this before but Polished/Quickstep/Serendipidy still rejects all the evidence, or claims the evidence supports his statements and nobody elses.

I think the answer is that he is using a different definition of the term 'closed position'.

P/Q/S is a guy?

jj

SocialDancer.At the finish off the Progressive Link the ladies right knee is behind the man's left knee and touching. The heel is high off the floor. The ladies left knee is behind the man's right knee and touching. The line of both sets of feet are in line. Does that seem like a Promenade Position. Or would you say it is closed. From there each steps one floor board wide to allow the second step to step through into the Closed Promenade.
Beats one, two is the Link . Step out on beats three. four for the Promenade figure.
What is a Promenade Position. Like the third step of an Open Telemark or an Open Impetus Turn, it finishes in Promenade. This we do not do on a Progresive Link.
You still haven't looked at the Progressive Link on this site have you. Go and look and then come back and tell me what you see. There is one clip that focuses on the feet and legs. Then also go to your book and give a word by word description of what is written.In mine it says.
Man's steps. LF forward across the body. Q.
RF to and slightly back side. Q.
With the LF continue by stepping sideways into a Promenade figure.
You do I hope realise that the Link has finished at the end of the second quick. anything said from there is on the next figure.
If you were already in a Promenade Position it would not be necessary to state continue by stepping into Promenade because you would be mistakenly already there.
Also if you look at the chart in the book for the Closed Promenade you will see that they are still in a closed position at the beginning. Unfortunately there are no chart for the Link. Also take note of the feet in the Tango how the man's LF foot is forward of the RF. The lady the natural opposite , This position must be returned to throughout the Tango.

To any newcomers who may be reading this thread:

Polished is a lonely figure who is taking a contrarian position on this subject simply to keep the thread going so that he(?) can tell himself that people care about what he puts on this site.

The Progressive Link in Tango ends in Promenade Position which is defined in the book as the man's right side contacting the lady's left side with the opposite sides slightly open.

Tango has a special requirement for the feet in this position but they do not determine Promenade Position.

If you continue to visit this site - and you should because there are some fine folks with some good advice - then you will be well served by ignoring what Polished writes - badly, I might add.

BTW, Polished regularly changes user IDs. The rest of us will be happy to identify him (?) for you.

Happy Dancing.

jj

jofjonesboro. You didn't answer one question that was put to you. You should know that you lose a debate if you ignore the points raised and if you get personal. Just tell me this. Exactly where are yours and your partners knees after the second quick of a Progresive Link. And exactly how is your book worded.I have written what Alex Moore says, now its your turn. That should not be to difficult to answer should it.

Polished,
The Progressive Link first appeared in the Tango when the sharper action was introduced into this dance. It was, of course, classed as a standardized variation being a development of steps one and two of the Progressive side Step.

This may be of interest to this discussion. Henry Jacques wrote:

/* As the second step is taken, the R. hip is taken forward towards partner and the R. shoulder is brought back so that the shoulders are square. As the R.F. prepares to move into position on the second step, the lady's L. side is pulled towards man's R. hip by a strong indication with the R. hand.

The second step must be kept short, and the whole figure danced as compact as is possible. */

Regarding the description of the second step:

Jacques wrote:
2. R.F. to side and slightly back in PP. A short step.

Silvester wrote:
2. Side RF, slightly back,in PP.

Moore wrote:
2. RF to side and slightly back (see note below.)

(Note. As the second step is taken, the man should bring the R. side of the body slightly back, and at the same time turn the lady to PP.)

Howard wrote:
2. RF to side and slightly back in PP.

Ken Akrill (UKA) wrote:
2. RF to side and slightly back in PP.

Henry was, of course, the person who " copied " the style from a French couple back in the 30s .

len / nellie, went on to further develop the "new " approach.


I do, however, have a problem with Henrys wording.. specifically. " pull ".

I would also add, that i consider him one of the great "theorists ".

I have never been an advocate of "pulling " anyone into a dance position . I never heard Len or Irvine, make that reference .


Hopefully , my frame/body , will transmit the desired result ( it always has )

That point was obviated by the statement that Promenade Position is defined by the sides and not by the feet. You just refuse to acknowledge that it did.

As stated in a previous post, the position of the knees is irrelevant.

As for being personal, I was being kind. Given your silly obstinance on this topic, I could have been much more blunt.

This thread has become a waste of time.

jj

OK. I'll try one last time to help you understand.

"At the finish off the Progressive Link the ladies right knee is behind the man's left knee and touching. ... The ladies left knee is behind the man's right knee and touching. ..Does that seem like a Promenade Position."

YES!!

"Or would you say it is closed."

NO! You are the only one who is saying it is closed because you are using a different definition.

"What is a Promenade Position. Like the third step of an Open Telemark or an Open Impetus Turn, it finishes in Promenade."

That is one example of PP but it is not the only one. Let's look at the definition given in your favourite book:
"The position in which the man's R side and lady's L side are kept in close contact, and the opposite sides of the body turned out to form a 'V' shape. The feet are usually turned to the same direction as the body."

It's now your turn to look at any of the examples you suggest and tell me if that is not what you see.

PP is a body position which is usually reflected in the feet such that the lady's next step is not a normal opposite of the man's. Thus both partners step forward or a variant thereof (diag fwd, side and slightly fwd etc).

Closed position usually requires that the lady step in the normal opposite direction to the man, eg man fwd, lady back. Compare the ending of an open and closed telemark. One is in PP, the other is not.

"Then also go to your book and give a word by word description of what is written."

I have done that above, but you ignored it.

"If you were already in a Promenade Position it would not be necessary to state continue by stepping into Promenade"

You mean like a follow from an open telemark - step fwd in CBMP and PP - is unnecessary? Besides, you are misquoting the book again. It does not say "stepping into Promenade" but "stepping sideways into a Promenade Figure".

"Also if you look at the chart in the book for the Closed Promenade you will see that they are still in a closed position at the beginning."

No. They are in PP as evidenced by the fact that the lady's feet are not pointing in the opposite direction to the man's, and her RF is in advance of her LF. Compare the lady's feet at the start and end of the figure. It starts in PP and ends in closed (in-line) position.

Promenade Position has nothing to do with whether the feet are open or closed. It is whether the bodies are open or closed.

You can now either accept this and join the rest of the world or continue the discussion on your own.