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Re: Correct following
Posted by dheun
11/6/2010  12:33:00 PM
Once again, I agree with Terence. I don't particularly like the term "push," though it is readily understandable when showing someone that you don't mean a push in the true sense of the word. But it is a little easier for a beginner to understand the resistance concept when you tell them it is slight push, or signal.
But it's also good to explain that you should feel that resistance in such a way that someone looking at you could not even tell that there was a feeling of resistance being established ... because you look to be just standing still. That's what you are talking about with it being created through proper body connection and correct weight, etc.
But yes, push is not the best word because it means different things to different people.
Re: Correct following
Posted by Joyce
11/7/2010  7:39:00 AM
When we practice to music, one of my partners said I was back leading. What is that?
It is not good.
Posted by jofjonesboro
11/7/2010  9:56:00 AM
"Backleading" means leading from the follow position. In other words, you're trying to direct what he does instead of letting him direct your actions. You're executing your movements without waiting for his lead and thus trying to take charge of floorcraft.

Backleading is a symptom of poor instruction. It's typical when a woman has tried to learn to dance by doing routines. As a result, she doesn't understand how to follow.

I have fired instructors for backleading me in a lesson and I will not tolerate any partner who does so.

jj

PS I'm sorry if this response seems a little harsh but I fully understand that partner's complaint. You'll enjoy dancing much more when you can break yourself of the habit. Following, like leading, is an art unto itself.
Re: Correct following
Posted by cbmp
11/7/2010  11:39:00 AM
Correct following requires listening from a kinesthetic point of view. That is why pushing, backleading, and the like, are the very opposite of what leaders and followers should be doing.

The leader indicates the direction of movement, the follower moves in that direction, and the leader follows the follower. Not as contradictory as it may seem.

In Tai Chi, there is a concept of "Lu," which is about drawing energy inwards. This requires listening to a partner's energy. Ballroom technique and Tai Chi technique have many similarities, as do all techniques of efficient movement. I believe jj has pointed out several times the connection between these two arts.
Re: Correct following
Posted by terence2
11/8/2010  12:03:00 AM
" Back leading " is frequently, and primarily caused, by transfering the weight too quickly, and lowering to the heel of the supporting leg , in turn,becoming back weighted.
Re: Correct following
Posted by dheun
11/8/2010  7:08:00 AM
Just the word "backleading" sends shivers down my spine. If a partner tries to backlead on me, I will just ask them to try to follow the lead. And then avoid dancing with them again.
In a social setting, it's fine, though annoying. Some women have never danced with someone who can lead, so they don't know any better. But there is no way you can look good as a dance couple if the woman insists on backleading. When I am teaching, or am at a lesson, a man might say, "She's trying to lead." And the woman will say, "He's not leading, I don't feel anything." That means they need to start from scratch and learn about the resistance and connection that is needed. Jofjonesboro once said on this message board that a good connection should make one feel as if they are steering a bicycle in leading the woman through the dances. I have used that analogy often, because it is true and it is a concept people can grasp. Stop your backleading now before it is too late! Follow the lead, and learn how it feels to do so.
Re: Correct following
Posted by phil.samways
11/23/2010  6:25:00 AM
My response to Joyse is first, don't lean back when you take hold. If anything, your shaping is sideways, not backwards, but, as terence has said, this needs to be taught on a 1-to-1 basis, and even experienced dancers have trouble with it.
On back-leading, i suspect you're not trying to lead, but you're moving away from your partner, and he thinks you're trying to lead.
I would offer this advice: Imagine (in a swing dance, such as foxtrot)you're doing a step back with your left to follow a man's step forward with his right. DON'T just let your body move back so that, for example, it's always mid-way between your feet. Keep your weight more forward and let your left foot slide back (with your toe) until you feel the man move forward. Then take weight onto that left foot (smoothly) and move with the man.You will inevitably have to soften your right, supporting, leg. But this is a good thing. Takes practice. He may complain that you feel 'heavy' at first, but keep at it.
Re: Correct following
Posted by nloftofan1
11/23/2010  10:32:00 AM
Simple answer: If your arms are braced (you maintain proper dance frame) you can lean back--not in an exaggerated way--into the man's right arm and still feel the man's lead (what you describe as "push against the man when he pushes"). Two separate things.
Re: Correct following
Posted by anymouse
11/23/2010  11:27:00 AM
"Simple answer: If your arms are braced (you maintain proper dance frame)"

Bracing the arms is not a proper dance frame.

One hopes to keep the frame in a generally full position, but this is not done by bracing the muscles of the arms. Instead, it's done by feeling the position of the arms, and then using the feet to move the body to correct any error in arm position.

It's also important to understand the difference between actively holding your partner with your hands (good) vs trying to hold position on them with your arm muscles (bad). It can take a while to become used to activating the hands while keeping the arm muscles much more relaxed.

"you can lean back--not in an exaggerated way--into the man's right arm and still feel the man's lead (what you describe as "push against the man when he pushes")."

One must not "lean" in the sense of taking body weight behind the foot. All that is needed is a small push matching the pressure of the man's hand, while remaining balanced on the foot. Once movement begins, the literal concept of balance is replaced by one of maintaining a body speed compatible with the partner's.
Re: Correct following
Posted by Mike
12/9/2010  9:41:00 PM
Why in the world would you ask us? Ask your instructor.

My guess is that he is teaching basic Social Dance. Not International, not American, but pure Social Dance like what was taught by family and friends long before people were foolish enough to pay someone $100 to $150 for a forty five minute hour lesson.

If you wish to dance with people who are not perfect, and just dance for fun, you are taking lessons from the right guy.

However, if you wish to compete, or if you really want to look good, you should go to a good Studio and take lessons from someone who is well respected by all the major players.

Social Dance can be anything from simple boxes to just about any figure the professionals do.

The major difference is that in Social Dance, you assume that your partner has never taken a lesson.

Good Social Dancers must lead and follow far more than the Competitors need to.

Competitors often memorize their own parts, therefore a strong lead is not necessary.

If you are dancing with lots of different people, each of whom has different abilities and experience, you must have very good lead and follow skills.

Most Social Dance Instructors will teach the lady to push her left shoulder blade back into the man's right hand. (This creates a stronger frame for the casual dancer.) Combine this with some pressure against each others stomachs, and you can get a really solid frame with out much formal training.

Everything in Social Dance is stronger and more firm than in a dance form where you know exactly what your partner is going to do,-- Before the music even starts.

In Competition Dance, you are expected to have your weight over your own feet at all times. This works well in Competitive dancing, but not so well with a partner who has not been trained to do it the way you were.

I won't go too far with this but the fact is that I know several women who regularly win Gold, who can not dance with anyone other than their Instructor.

In Social Dance, your partner might swing you like a father swings his small daughter. Social dancers work off of their partner more. They use each other for balance. Many Social Dance figures require you to hold on if you don't want to go flying across the floor.

Your question should be, "Why doesn't everyone who answered my question ask me what I want out of dancing, and who I will be dancing with before they tell me how to dance?"

Considering that you are learning at Senior Center my guess is that you just want to have fun and dance to the music with a man who just wants to dance with you.

My advise is the same as every person here would give you if they were the one teaching you to dance.

If you want to take lessons from the person who is willing to teach you, DO IT HIS WAY while you are in his class!
Especially if he is teaching you for,
(Let me guess.), five or ten dollars an hour.)

If you don't like his teaching, get out your check book and pay a professional.

Mike

PS-- And just because you are paying $100 for a 45 minute hour, that doesn't mean that he is any better than the guy who is charging your $5 for a full 60 minute hour.

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