Danz4joy, so which one is it to you? A group class is worth as much as a single private one on one lesson or not? In this later post you said it not of the same value but on a previous post you said it is when you divided $6000 evenly in 35 private lessons and 35 group classes to get $80 per group class and $80 per private lessons???? I'm confused.

Any instructor who is trying to make a living by teaching only cannot do so by charging $15 for a private lesson. any champion dancer would never charge that little because they are worth much more than that. Charging $15 for a group class I can see because you're making hundreds of dollars still. The average PRIVATE lesson rate is $50-$100 an hour for any certified teacher. Not every teacher has a wish to be a champion dancer-that does not mean they do not know what they are talking about. It is completely disrespectful to teachers who have spent years training not only in dancing, but in teaching as well to make a statement that if you work for AM you don't know what you're doing. You don't have to like the way AM does things-I don't agree with everything and I work there-but don't insult all of the teachers. I agree-not all AM's are great. Not all independent studios are great either and there are alot of self-proclaimed 'professionals' who are teaching people out there.But it's unfair to label all of the teachers who bust their ass every day to teach people how to dance at AM as not knowing what they are doing. In my school we only receive training from current and former champions, contrary to what apparantly people believe

Time to become active in your local dance clubs. They also provide excellent instructors & friendly people. You should find group lessons, private lessons, workshops, etc for a mere fraction of the cost. Get online and find your local ballroom or west coast swing club, etc.

I am an AM student and have been for over 6 years. I have also taken lessons at independent studios. I don't understand why it has to be this whole "us or them" thing. AM and FADS offer different things than do the independent studios, but both hold thier place in the dance environment. I personally take lessons at a local independent studio so I get a slightly different perspective on what I am doing and us it as a supplemental experience to my dancing.

As for the cost, the independent studio charges only marginally less than my AM studio. And having said that, you only give up what you allow yourself to give up. I have only on a couple of occaisions paid my whole program in advance and I have NEVER paid more than I wanted to pay for any part of any program. I decide what is valuable and necessary to my dancing. Sales is part of what drives the dance lesson industry, even if it is an independent studio (they have to pay their overhead, too), however, if I am only comfortable buying 5 lessons, then that's what I buy. If I'm feeling more like I want to work on longer-term goals, then I may buy 30 lessons. Usually, I buy my lessons in smaller groups because I'm not in a hurry to get to whatever that ultimate point in dancing is. I believe it's about the journey of the art as it evolves in each person, not some final moment of completion.

Further, in MY experience, you get what you pay for. If you pay someone $50 a lesson, that's what you'll get and it may not take you very far down your path.

Don't pay the $6k. Have them break it down further. Ask what you can do with say 15 lessons instead of 45. If YOU aren't happy with what your teacher delivers, change teachers. If YOU aren't happy with AM, move on. If you are happy with your teacher and the environment, stay. Give it a chance, but be in control of your pocketbook. If you think AM is taking you for all you've got, then go to an independent, but don't think that just because they don't have a big franchise behind them that they can't rob you blind, too. That is for YOU to control, not your teacher or a franchisee.

to boleros2aerosmith,
You are very well spoken.
"I believe it is about the journey of the art as it evolves in each person..." that is just beautiful! I try to remind that to myself when I am doing rounds and can't hit that perfect line.... AAAARGH!

I have no idea what you are talking about! (I'm lying through my teeth!!)

is it not absolutley amazing how long this discussion has been?

If you've been signed off on your bronze one than you should be considered bronze 2. so first haved you had bronze 1 checkout? Next take your concerns to you studio manager and or supervisor that's why they are their. Real teachers know that it takes time to develope a good dancer and they don't see taking your a process as a waist of time just like a college teacher or high school teacher knows they have a certain period of time to teach you the material in that class no one would try to cram a years worth of education into a hour what value is there in that. whether it be for a whole year or a whole semiester Your instructor knows how much information they can cover in that time frame and would not do you the disservice of trying to teach you without enough time.

This is a misleading sales gimmick.

"See, we're giving you 70 items at $85/item."

It's not broken down in comparison.

In our area group classes average $6/hr to $8/hr but I'll look at it in your area.

At $10/hr group classes that's $350.

Going the studio route mentioned means passing on the independent group classes you're essentially paying (6,000 - 350)/35 = $161.43/hr for the private lessons.

At $15/group class it's (6,000 - 525)/35 = $156.43/hr.

For that kind of money you'd want to make sure the teacher really is qualified if you're there for the dancing instead of the socializing.

If it's the social aspect vs. dance aspect that's important it's cheaper to go to a bar preferably one with dancing. After a few beers at least I'd think I was dancing pretty well.

The basic package being peddled around here is "The Ten":

2 private, 3 group, 3 practices, 3 supervised practices, all 45 minute sessions, for $216.00

And gee, guess what, our "Ten" is really "Eleven"! A bonus! (sales technique). Less than $20 per item!

However, locally through our club the 3 group, 3 practices, 3 supervised practices, all 45 minute sessions, can be achieved for $15". That's right: $15 with group classes taught by teachers at the "Member" ISTD/CDTA level.

(For those not aware the ISTD levels for teaching are: student, associate, member, fellow. You can't even reach student teacher level without years of experience and teacher training.)

Passing on this for the chain means you're essentially paying $201 for two 45 minute private lessons (taught here by 2 kids just trained out of high school) or $134/hr.

"Member" level private teachers here charge $60/hr. hall included.

As for "independent" I think there is a misconception for some on this. "Independent" does not necessarily mean "independent studio". Many of us here are referring to "independent teachers" who teach privately at home, in a rented hall or possibly a studio. All the independent teachers here rent halls.

Note: Many chains are owned/operated by people with ISTD or equivalent certification. You could always ask them to be your teacher. However, at what I understand the chains pay I doubt many teachers who are not owner/operators would have ISTD or equivalent certification.

Note also: Chains have higher overhead so there is some justification in charging more.

Good luck whatever you do.

OB

I was talking to Dancin'Bill this morning who had read my post.

He reminded me the sessions above are likely 45 minute sessions. Therefore, if true, they are third higher:

$215.24/hr

and

$208.75/hr

respectively.

Not to be offensive, but sheesch! my lawyer only charged $200/hr and got me a 25% larger settlement from my car crash.

Over to you Dancin'Bill.

OB