"Anonymous. Your 4th paragraph is the very thing that needs to be understood.When you say You push sideways from the first step.
You are speaking from the man's perspective only.
For the lady there is that little description which says NFR on step one.
The push will come later than the man's."

No, the trajectory of the bodies must match, so the lady will push sideways to partially redirect her movement at the same time that the man does. If she did not, then she'd be dancing a 3/8 natural turn rather than matching his desire to dance a quarter turn.

This is a separate issue from the delayed completion practiced by the person on the inside of the turn.

"In laymans terms Let him pass first. Do not try to arrive at exactly the same time."

In the 90 degree turn figure being discussed, he isn't going to pass her nearly as much as he would in the 135 degree natural turn, so this difference is going to be smaller than it would be in a natural turn.

Note however that I never said she would arrive at the same time - what I said was that she had to push sideways in order to make a change in her body trajectory that matches the change in his. She can still arrive later, but she must make a matching change.

Probably the simplest way to understand this is to turn the figure around and have the man dance the inside action while leading. He's got to lead the sideways change in her trajectory by pushing sideways from his feet, while also letting his partner get there first.

Anonymous. The man does the inside action on the Progresive Chasse. There is no need to turn the figure around. Also the ladies position on the man's right side will not alter. In todays dancing it is all about you go I go. The ladies position in relation to the man is well to his right side which allows this to happen. You go I go shows up more in the V. Waltz where it is important to understand within a partnership no two people will swing at the same time. The Swing is reserved for the person who is going forward.

"The Swing is reserved for the person who is going forward."

This is only relatively true, not completely true. The person on the inside of the turn will swing, just not as much.

And the difference in the partner's swings is substantially smaller for the more sideways swing of the quarter turn than it is for the pass-your-partner swing of the 3/8 turning natural.

Think about it this way: the less turn there is made, the less difference there is in the distance to be traveled by the outside partner vs. the inside one.

Anonymous. A normal Quarter Turn starts facing diag to wall . If you follow the Quarter Turn to the Right with a Progressive Chasse you will finish facing diagonal to the wall. Hold that line for the Lock Step which is normally commenced and finished facing diagonal to the wall.
If you are using a Heel Pull for the man to finish facing diag to the centre. I think that would be a 1/2 turn wouldn't it.
What is most important for the person on the outside of the turn is that they will be on two toes as the left foot is placed to the side which is why the footwork on the first step is down as H.T. and the person on the inside of the turns footwork is not down as T.H.T.
The Heel Pull is so old- fashioned I think the only time it would be used is if it is to be followed by a Chasse Reverse Turn.

Serendipity, what exactly is your point?

You type in a bunch of well known trivia, completely unrelated to the subject at hand and in no way backing up your mistaken argument.

"But to turn your top half to a different angle to your bottom half by twisting your spine is not neccessary. "

To twist your spine to some degree by turning your hips and shoulders to somewhat different angles, actually will ultimately prove necessary in a variety of situtaions if one's dancing is going to advance beyond a beginner stage.

At what point a teacher chooses to introduce the concept, and what words they use to explain it will vary, but ultimately it is a necessary feature of fully skilled dancing. Some teachers may not even think of this for what it is, viewing the situation in a different light instead, but it's still present in their dancing.

Obstinately denying this simply proves the limitation of your education as a dancer.

In terms of physiology, no one with a shred of knowledge of the human skeleton would deny that it is constructed in a way that makes reasonable twist of the spine a motion readily available to us.

"If you can tell me exactly on a Feather Step for instance where there is a twist in the body"

It would be much more noticeable in a turning figure, as a difference in the rate at which different body parts turn.

And of course it's downright obvious in promenade.



Actually the mistake is your claim that the book tells you not to twist. In actuality it says no such thing! All it does is point out - quite correctly - that twist is not the dominant component in one particular situation.

why is your name anonymous to begin with?

Hey you guy who are into physics. If I twist my spine on a dance step am I trying to go in two different directions at the same time. Am I signaling one thing to my partner plus another at the same time. Why not ask her.
What brought this to my attention was a comment made by one of the judges on our Dancing with the Stars who just happens to be a former World Finalist and at the present a Blackpool judge.

"Hey you guy who are into physics."

Twisting the spine / around the spine should not be done not done to create torque!

It is done to keep the body shaped to the partner while moving both bodies in a direction which doesn't happen to match the seperation between the partner's centers.

"If I twist my spine on a dance step am I trying to go in two different directions at the same time."

No, but you are trying to shape in one direction (towards your partner) while moving both of you in another direction.

"Am I signaling one thing to my partner plus another at the same time."

Yes, but they don't overlap. You signal connection and you signal movement. The directions don't have to match - in most dance figures they can't.

Confusing your partner is not good of course. But twisting around your spine does not necessarily mean confusing your partner if you do the proper way. Indeed, it is a basic element that makes many of the linear movements in ballroom possible. Without it (watch the couples who refuse to ulitize it) you end up having to curve many things around each other, instead of simply moving together in the intended direction. Some finds those curves aestheticaly pleasing. Others have a use for curve now and then, but like to be able to dance the numerous straight line figures along the straight lines of progression as they have been written.