This exchange has become pointless. You insist on ignoring what the technique books clearly describe in favor of some concept which you cannot even articulate.

I stand by what I - and Moore, Howard, Goodman (see Clives's post), Veyrasset, and every other piece of instruction that I've seen or heard, including the videos on this site - have said (or shown).

Promenade Position IS characterized by a turnout of the bodies. You can complain as much as you wish about the extent to which that turnout is manifested but it must be there. The turnout is NOT for its own sake.



jj

"Promenade Position IS characterized by a turnout of the bodies. You can complain as much as you wish about the extent to which that turnout is manifested but it must be there. The turnout is NOT for its own sake."

Your understanding of promenade is characterized by a 'religious' adherence to a reveled text, unhampered by actual interaction with experts.

It's quite funny that you cite the videos on this website as evidence, yet ignore the comments on the subject that have been made by the dancers shown in them - for example, Jonathan in the whisk thread:

"It may be an oversimplification to say that the upper body is turned exactly a full 1/8 off of the feet in promenade, but if you allow me the liberty, this is how I would describe it: In promenade, man's feet point diagonal wall, body faces wall. Lady's feet point diagonal center, body faces center."

I cant make you guys out at all. You are talking Tango. Is that right. And you mention Alex Moore. You are aware that he never mentions a Chasse in the Tango. Where did that come from. Work from this. As you know the feet are not in line toe to toe. The RF foot is with the toe level with the instep of the LF foot. If the feet were pointing diag to wall with the LOD the body has 1/8 of a turn anti- clock. This shape is maintained throughout. In a Walk the first step with the man's LF will be in CBMP. Because of the shape the second step will not be in CBMP. The first step into the Progressive Link will be with CBMP. At the end of any Closed Promenade or Reverse Turn the feet will always finish in that off set position . Which if you look at the charts are there at the beginning of every movement. The lady is the normal opposite. I love the Tango.

Polished, yes we are talking Tango although mainly at the moment the sub-topic is Promenade Position. We also mention Alex Moore, though not as often as you do because we also mention the current association technique books. These do mention a chasse in Tango although it does not warrant a description of its own.

A chasse to the right is very often danced following a Chase. Oops! I forgot, that's another figure that does not exist because Alex Moore did not list it in his book.


Ah, wait a minute. He does mention the Chase and the Chasse in his "Popular Variations".
Here's the fun bit. One of his variations including the chasse starts with a drop oversway and includes the line "keeping slightly in PP". Anyone care to explain what that means?

The way the Progressive Link is done today. All that is necessary is for the lady to turn her head from the left to the right. Thats it. If she turns it back to the left and again to the right. There is your head flick,usually used to get into the correct rhythm. It is not necessary to open the shoulders. Just the turn of the head will do. There are enough pictures to look at if you go to Dancesport UK of couples at the end of the Progressive Link.
CliveHarrison. Was the couple you mentioned in a Tango hold. If he was isn't it possible that he was stepping out from a Link. Of course he would be in a V shape.

"The way the Progressive Link is done today. All that is necessary is for the lady to turn her head from the left to the right. Thats it.....It is not necessary to open the shoulders. Just the turn of the head will do. "

And much more importantly, the turn of her feet.

Clean promenades have the bodies quite closed. Promenade can optionally be danced (usually for teaching purposes) without changing the head.

So what's left as characteristic?

Both partner's feet aligned on a forwards diagonal, instead of one partners forwards and the others backwards or both sideways as in non-promenade positions.

(The reference to the chasse was to the chasse in waltz, and was made because it illustrates that when Moore actually provided instruction in how to dance a promenade, he included a specific note advising body parallelism)

"(The reference to the chasse was to the chasse in waltz, and was made because it illustrates that when Moore actually provided instruction in how to dance a promenade, he included a specific note advising body parallelism)"

Care to cite this reference?



jj

"Care to cite this reference?
"

If you will look up the description of the chasse from promenade in Moore's Ballroom Dancing, you will see that after the condensed description the first explanatory note is that the bodies should remain square to the wall despite the feet being at an angle to it. This note is given for both partners - therefore it means the partners bodies will be square or nearly square to each other. I suspect however that the note is targeted mostly at the upper body, wheras most other mentions of body in the textbook are targeted at the lower, especially at the hips.

I did look up Moore (9th edition), and found, just as I recalled, that he DOESN'T mention the body once in the notes, either for man or lady, just that by step 3 of the chasse, the lady is square to the man - as of course, she should be.

What IS said, is that the lady must wait for the man to turn her square to him, as in some advanced endings, the lady is kept in PP at the end of the chasse. Now isn't that odd?

The chasse from promenade is only listed as a separate figure in the 10th edition which was a major revision made after Alex's death.

The whisk first appeared in the 4th edition and its description, together with a suggested follow of a chasse based on the quickstep chasse remained largely unchanged through to the 9th edition.

As has been mentioned before, the chasse is dance FROM PP not IN PP, only the first step is taken in PP. The 10th edition description of the lady's steps includes on step 1 "turning body to L" and step 2 "body facing centre". At this time the bodies are almost parallel but are no longer in PP.