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quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by wayne
6/29/2011  4:23:00 PM
In a quickstep is there and body position change when doing a chasse follow by a lock
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by anymouse
7/2/2011  1:59:00 PM
"In a quickstep is there and body position change when doing a chasse follow by a lock"

"Body position" is something that has many dimensions, and undergoes nearly continuous change in at least some of its details.

That said, most big, visible, changes in the body occur "within" figures. Ideally the boundaries between figures are seamless, one figure transitioning seamlessly into the next, meaning the boundary is really only present in the description of the dancing but not in the dancing itself.

Looking inside the chasse, depending on which of the many chasses is being danced there likely will be some differences between the starting and ending body position.

The lock would in this case start and end in the same type of body position, however there is a small difference between the way the body is held in the outside partner postitions at the start and end, vs the locked position in the middle.

And of course the rise and fall, not to mention the very actions of taking a step, have small but important impacts on the usage of the body core - generally at the level which can be felt by your partner, but not seen by an outside party.
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by TangoFandango
7/13/2011  2:42:00 AM
Quite a lot to dig out of that answer if you are a beginner.
A clear lead is important, a good wide firm frame is needed as a follower will position her body and move her feet depending on your body position.

For the progressive chasse, start back right BDC, you will side-close-side facing the wall, the final side (L) pointing DW, your body turning to join it facing DW ready to step right outside the lady's right side with your right foot, the lady going back left. If you are now doing a natural figure, your body will turn clockwise and the lady can move her right foot into the space on her right side to suit.
If you are going to do a lock, your left foot step will be fwd and to your left (your body remaining facing DW), the lady matching it with her right going back. Here her problems start, her right foot is now in the way of her left foot, the options are to loop it round the right or cross in front of the right in a lock.
If you do the lock step alone, right crossing in behind your left you will note that your body turns a little to face the wall position, this fractional movement, coupled with a gentle hint of a lift gives the lady confidence that she should lock her left in front of her right with weight, ready for a quick back step on her right.
A clear lead, as early as possible will let the lady comfortably follow you.
(As you can tell, I am not a teacher, so I have my asbestos underwear on ready for the flaming!)
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by TangoFandango
7/13/2011  6:34:00 AM
Anon,

Sorry, can you explain the lady's HTH above?
I would have thought all backward steps are TH "peeling" the foot except the two lock steps up on the toes?
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by Anonymous
7/12/2011  11:46:00 PM
I guess that the question refers to progressive chasse followed by fwd lock-step.
If that's the case, the progressive chasse starts with CBM followed by slight body turn during the chasse steps (from pointing DW to facing DW), while the fwd lock-step starts with CBMP and the body between FW and DW (shoulder leading) throughout.
Hope this helps.
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by anymouse
7/17/2011  5:27:00 PM
"Answering 7/12/2011 11.46. That is not a slight turn. It is a Quarter of a turn to the left on the Progressive Chasse. Hold that position for the Lock Step. Back to basic eh."

The post to which you respond described the body. You are giving the amount of turn in the feet, which is something different. Further, that post was describing not the rotation in the CBM, but a subsequent body rotation from a pointing to a facing DW body alignment.

As a piece of practical advice, at quickstep tempo the emphasis of continued body travel over swing may make it advantageous to turn the body somewhat less than the feet - particularly if the goal is to accomplish substantial sideways travel down the LOD using a series of quarter turns and progressive chasses as a simple and highly effective approach to quickstep.
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by quickstep7
7/18/2011  1:48:00 AM
I have to say anymouse's advice is good and this is what I make my beginners do!
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by anymouse
8/25/2011  8:36:00 AM
Posted in response to this quote from a now-vanished message from an anonymous user:

"Anybody going to my teacher will have to make a quarter of a turn of the body to the right in relation to the feet on the first step of the Lockstep . And to maintaine that left side leading position throughout the Lockstep."

This is mistaken in two respects:

1) The difference of rotational alignment of the top in relation to the feet for a side leading position would an eighth (45 degrees) or less, not a quarter (90 degrees). Bear in mind also that the direction of travel in this case must be at a diagonal across the feet, so the angle between the feet and body will be somewhat less than the angle between the body and the line for travel.

2) When the lockstep is commenced outside partner (as it would be in this case), a substantially left side leading orientation of the body is already present, and although CBM is still listed, much less rotation is needed than when commencing from an in-line position.
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by anymouse
8/25/2011  8:37:00 AM
Posted in response to this quote from a now-vanished message from an anonymous user:

"The First step of the Lockstep is in CBMP as is all steps taken outside partner in all of the dances.. It is not in CBM."

No step is ever "in CBM", but if you will look in your book, you will see that this step is listed not only as being outside partner into CBMP, but also as having slight CBM applied to it. Indeed, in every case where CBM would apply to the inline version of a figure and a version starting outside partner is explicitly described, the outside partner version is listed as having CBM. Many people continue to think that CBMP steps cannot have CBM, but that's just not true - the books are chock full of examples.

This came up because someone claimed that a quarter turn of the body relative to the feet was required there. Some rotational action of the body is theoretically required - that's what the indication of CBM is there to indicate. But when already in the side-leading/outside partner configuration, substantially less than even an eighth of a rotation would be needed.

"With CBMP the shoulders are already in position after the Progresive Chasse, therefore there is no further turn of the body and shoulders."

You can debate how much rotation is ideal there (that's s detail of personal execution) however it is a fact that the book still lists CBM in these cases.

Note here that we've gone from someone arguing (in a now apparently deleted post) that there should be a full quarter turn (90 degrees) of body rotation relative to the feet - to the present dispute between "some hint of action sufficient that the book still lists CBM" vs. your opinion of "no further turn of body and shoulders". On the dancefloor, that's a negligible difference. But in an exam, you had better remember to mention that CBM does apply.
Re: quickstep chasse to lock
Posted by anymouse
8/25/2011  8:37:00 AM
(Posted in response to quotes from a now-vanished message from an anonymous user)

"There is no rotation of the body on the first step of a Lockstep because we are already there after the Progressive Chasse."

This is a popular interpretation, but if you actually read the book you will see that there really is a slight CBM is explicitly noted for step 1, despite it being outside partner in CBMP.

Some people chose to ignore this fact and simply pretend that the formal technique doesn't say what it does (and not just once, but in every such case). Or preferably, acknowledge that the book says what it does, but prefer for one reason or another not to reflect that in any way in their own dancing.

Others feel that CBM in the presence of CBMP is not quite a literal rotation but something else in the body that defies simple description.

And some feel that there will be a body rotation, but less of one than in the inline case. Note also that many will get a bit of anticlockwise windup on the preceding step in part to make a larger topline, but also to give opportunity for a bit more CBM on the outside partner step. It's certainly a trick that can be taken too far, but used judiciously it contributes to the quality and expression of the dance.

That there is "CBM" on step one of the outside partner lockstep is an indisputable fact of definition. But only one of definition, not one of execution. How a given dancer choses to interpret (or even ignore) that aspect of the definition in their body is a subject open to artistic interpretation.

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