Anonymous.I personaly believe it is inferior to turning the hips without the shoulders.
What exactly do you believe. I only know what you have written which happens to be correct. And is what I have been writting since day one. Which you have disagreed with untill 12.2.06. And now you appear to be a believer. Maybe you've seen the light and are saved.

"Anonymous.I personaly believe it is inferior to turning the hips without the shoulders.

What exactly do you believe."

Exactly what you have accurately copied THIS TIME:

turning the hips with the shoulders in a reverse action is inferrior to turning the hips without the shoulders.

" I only know what you have written which happens to be correct. And is what I have been writting since day one. Which you have disagreed with untill 12.2.06. And now you appear to be a believer. Maybe you've seen the light and are saved."

Silly boy... the only thing that has changed is that you misquoted me in your previous message, which of course totally changed it's meaning. That word "to" which you left out was in my message - my meaning has not changed one bit.


"

Anonymous. So when you wrote CBMP is taking the hipback without the shoulder.You didn't really mean that.
When you wrote. I can't find the word , don't do it or any negetive recomendation in the book. And you wrote on. But there is not in any way a prohibition of twist.
I wrote several times that I can't see how you can have a left side lead, keep it there, and turn the hips to the left whilst keeping the shoulder leading..
Your last statement that. That turning the hips with the shoulders in a Reverse action is inferior to turning the hips without the shoulders.
You have done a complete about turn on this one. Did you ask your teacher.
Don't let us hear anymore on left side leading into a Revese Turn in the Foxtrot. You can do it if you like but don't tell other people that it is correct, or that the technique book is incorrect.Or that the instructions in the Learning Centre are not correct. This also applies to teaching tapes.I know this is hard for someone who has a belief they know it all. But just pull your head in.

So Don, what you are basically saying is that your response to having missed the word "to" in reading my post is going to be to dredge up every argument we have had in the past and see if I stand by my original statements????

Well guess what. I DO.

"So when you wrote CBMP is taking the hipback without the shoulder.You didn't really mean that."

Of course I really meant it, because it is ESSENTIAL. Now given that your entire body is moving every part of your body will be progressing, however the CBMP shape itself involves taking the hip back while leaving the shoulder behind. But the net body motion involves moving both. CBMP shape - from stretch. Progressing - from movement of everything.

"I wrote several times that I can't see how you can have a left side lead, keep it there, and turn the hips to the left whilst keeping the shoulder leading.."

Not my fault if your imagination is too limited, but if you took lessons with a world class coach you would be told to either do this, or to turn neither your shoulders not hips until the second step of a reverse action. Personally I don't find it very difficult (though I'm still told I turn my top too early!)

"That turning the hips with the shoulders in a Reverse action is inferior to turning the hips without the shoulders.
You have done a complete about turn on this one. "

No Don, I have said the same thing in every post on the subject. Your reading however is quite erratic - sometimes you skip over words, and when you leave those out the meaning appears to flip flop. But go back and look - that little word "to" was there from the start!

"Don't let us hear anymore on left side leading into a Revese Turn in the Foxtrot. You can do it if you like but don't tell other people that it is correct, or that the technique book is incorrect.Or that the instructions in the Learning Centre are not correct. This also applies to teaching tapes."

I will continue to correct your misconceptions with the TRUTH. If you are a serious student of dancing, and seek lessons with the best, someday you will discover that I do in fact know what I am talking about.

Anonymous. What do you mean by turn your top to early. Are you turning your top without your hip instead of using the whole of your side as a single unit. Are you telling us that those imaginary blocks of wood .The
top two are turning without the others.
And that they are twisting out of line.

"Anonymous. What do you mean by turn your top to early. Are you turning your top without your hip instead of using the whole of your side as a single unit."


No. I was turning my top withh but less than my hips, during step one.

And the teacher rightly called that "too early".

A properly danced reverse turn, as we have come to understand it, will not see rotation of the topline until very close to step 2. Some put in hip rotation before than, some do not - but the common idea is that the top does not rotate during step one. So you can just forget about what the book says there... it is long out of date.

"Are you telling us that those imaginary blocks of wood .The
top two are turning without the others."

No, the opposite - the hips are turning without the shoulders.

"And that they are twisting out of line."

No - they remain lined up even as they rotate relative to each other.

Anonymous.Do I understand you correctly. You are saying the hips are turning without the shoulders therefore twisting .How can they remain in line if the hips are turning without the shoulders. And straight away you say They remain in line even as they rotate reletive to each other. What exactly have I been trying to teach you for the past few weeks. Lets all see how you try to talk your way out of this one.

"Anonymous.Do I understand you correctly. You are saying the hips are turning without the shoulders therefore twisting .How can they remain in line if the hips are turning without the shoulders."

Alignment is a function of relative POSITION while twist is a functional of relative ROTATIONAL ORIENTATION.

As a result, they are not exclusive of each other.

I think that Don and Anonymous have had an entertaining series of debates,and I hope that they can continue because I think that they are educating each other and I for one am enjoying it. I tend to believe that Don is expending more energy per post (and increasing his entropy faster) than anonymous is, so I think that Don will be the first to deplete his power packs and soon will have to go recharge them. I am trying to decide if anonymous is simply teasing Don all this time. But whether that is true or not, we may never know.

p.s. The 100th post on this thread is MINE!!! lol

IndySpinner.My power packs will not deplete. If a question comes up that I don't already know I can simply ask.My teachers are off again to Europe to train and will stay untill the UK Championship in January, after which they will go to Japan for another competition. The teachers they go to are the who's who in ballroom dancing. If I want to know how John Wood places the lady in the correct position in the setup, all I have to do is ask. As I did about the balance points or, if you like collection points, another word is coming into a neutral position Which some people believe does not exist. Not everybody is fortunate enough be taught or able to be taught by a current Professional competitor with a world ranking who also has lessons themselves, and also teach and give lectures. In a competition a while ago they were being judged by four judges who were their pupils.This wasn't in Europe I might add. I have myself a collection of teaching DVD's and also of several major competitions on tape.So information I am not short off.We here are also fortunate to have a former Professional couple who were ranked seventh in the world ranking in Latin.Again anything I need to know I can just ask. Both of these couples run technique only classes weekly.That is when thet are in the country. So there we have a thumbnail sketch of where I get my information. I make no claim to be an inventor of steps or technique. Everything I know I have been taught. What I do have is an excellent memory.