One needs to be very careful when advocating the " use " of the hip/s , particularly in Tango ( which should not happen.. one of Lens peeves ).

The inherent danger of such advice may promote newer students dancing " under " their partner .

And actually he did say " and the connection is from the hips ".

I don't think that it is generally helpful to use a vocabulary that you don't define.

'Core' means nothing at all to most beginning dancers. I have never heard an instructor attempt to say what they mean. Most probably don't actually know (not Terence, obviously).

I must point out again to terrance that gary did not say there was contact in the hips or even that the connection was AT the hips. Rather he said that the connection was FROM the hips, and not from the arms. As there is obviously contact AT and of the arms, itc is clear that there was a distinction being made between physical contact versus the connecting through of body parts to facilitate their coordinated use. My computer is connected to this website, but nowhere near the server.

As for tango, the lack of swing and sway would somewhat limit the usage of the hips in contrast to the center, though they remain important for one of the two schools even in tango.

Obviously, the "hips are part of our anatomy.. but.. their " usage " for want of a better term, should be only thru the result of the primary action, the Core.

To Intentionally portray and use "them" as an initial source of power or direction, would be contrary to good dance physics as needs to be applied in the closed position dances .

The only time I have heard a direct usage of the Hip, is in Tango when one has danced a link, and the advice given ( or should be )is to ensure that the hip of man and lady is slightly raised from the prom. side .

"Obviously, the "hips are part of our anatomy.. but.. their " usage " for want of a better term, should be only thru the result of the primary action, the Core.

To Intentionally portray and use "them" as an initial source of power or direction, would be contrary to good dance physics as needs to be applied in the closed position dances ."

You are seriously mistaken in saying this, and the reason is that you have gotten into the habit of saying this kind of thing without seriously thinking about its physical implausibility.

What you think of as the "core" may or may not (depending on style and application) be the focus or center of a body movement. But it is far too high in the body to be the source of activity or power. Active usage of the center for power merely results in the top flopping around - shaping without moving (or worse, lunging the upper body), which is a very weak kind of dancing.

As we'll all realize if we take a step back and think about it, the input of actual muscle power comes primarily from the feet, ankles, and legs. All the core has to do in the way of actual activity for this to work is to hold the upper body connected to the power being created in the lower.

Changes in the body configuration, such as rotation or sway, have to come from a body part below the one that is being subjected to the change. If you want to have sway in the core, it must be achieved in places such as the ankles and hips. On the other hand, if you are one of the many who does not sway your core but only your top, then you achieve sway primarily via flexibility of the ribcage. This is even more true for the expressive/decorate sways and shapes - a dancer who involves their hips will use them substantially in this, while one from the school which believes in keeping the hips level will create all such decoration from the ribcage.

I believe that most trained dancers understand WHERE the power is generated.. we all know about " compression " ( or should ) thats not my point,, the response was to show WHICH part of the body moved first thus using the generated energy primarily thru the core .

And, as to WHERE I place that "core " is not remotely in the position you suggested.. how could you possibly know ?... you are somewhat a sophist in your conclusions .


HOW we use that energy is a whole other topic .


I still believe that the usage of the word " hips " is or may be, a very misunderstood teaching statement for a beginner in the context that it was given,( AND ,I did not deny that they are part and parcel of motion) .

In real terms,we should know that ALL parts of the body are used to a greater or lesser degree,

As a by note.. the word "core" and "centre " are purely semantics meant to imply the same thing .

"And, as to WHERE I place that "core " is not remotely in the position you suggested.. how could you possibly know ?..."

Because it's a common word.

"As a by note.. the word "core" and "centre " are purely semantics meant to imply the same thing ."

Ah, so you mean exactly the same thing by "core" as I thought you did.

The human body's center of gravity is between the hips (one of the first things learned in Taiji). It is erroneous to speak of the hips and the center as though they are separate entities.

Claiming that the core is "too high in the body" to initiate movement is simply ignorant

I have never heard any professional at any level claim that the center (or hips) is a point of contact. What they do teach is that dancers drive (i.e. initiate movement) from their center using their legs.

jj

"The human body's center of gravity is between the hips (one of the first things learned in Taiji). It is erroneous to speak of the hips and the center as though they are separate entities."

What makes you think that "center" in dance usage refers literally to the center of gravity in free space?

"Claiming that the core is "too high in the body" to initiate movement is simply ignorant"

It's muscles are. Regardless if we speak of the center of mass or the slightly higher dance center, muscles in that area are only going to be able to play a small role in influencing movement of this region through space - while muscles between there and the floor are in a position to create powerful movement.

"I have never heard any professional at any level claim that the center (or hips) is a point of contact."

Contact isn't really relevant to this discussion. But they do often identify the center as being higher than you do - somewhere in the abdomen (many speak of a high center and a low center separated by a few inches, the low one might be the slightly below the navel position where the free body center of mass is usually found)

"What they do teach is that dancers drive (i.e. initiate movement) from their center using their legs."

Literally, movement OF their center, by the use of their legs. Now you are agreeing with the very statement ("What you think of as the "core" may or may not (depending on style and application) be the focus or center of a body movement. But it is far too high in the body to be the source of activity or power") that you called ignorant.

For the primary active movements of ballroom, the center is the "movee", not the "mover".

Because it does. What other center of the body would there be when you're discussing the movemment of body weight?


Yes, it is. Please reread the previous posts in this thread.


If so then those of whom you speak simply don't know what they're talking about.


No, I did not agree with that statement in any way. This is just your old, dishonest tactic of claiming that your adversary said something that in fact was not said. In debating, it's known as a "straw man" and you're not very good at it.


Duh! I never claimed otherwise.

I'm done with this exchange. Now you can again fulfill your pathetic need to have the last word.

Have a nice day.

jj