Hi,

I would like to correct a default of my way of dancing. When I dance Intl Tango and execute slow step (for example at the end of a promenade) my dance seems to be stopped for a while and so the whole of my exhibition seems to be too jerky.
How can I fix this problem to link my slow steps with the suite of the dance without a break.

Thank you for your answers.
Patrick

As others on this site will tell you, it's almost impossible to diagnose dancing issues in writing. Could you post a video to YouTube and then link us to it?

Two things come to mind: lack of balance and CBM.

If you're not comfortable when you close your feet at the end of the Promenade then you may be hesitating to gather yourself before continuing.

However, I think that the more likely cause of your "jerky" performance is a failure to employ CBM. As your right foot finishes closing at the end the the Promenade (I'm guessing that you mean a Closed Promenade here), your frame - your upper body - should be turning gently in preparation for the first step of the next figure, whatever it may be. Usually, that step (LF) will be forward out of a CP so the turning would be leftward.

As dheun points out in another thread, the correct use of CBM is one of the most overlooked aspects of dance instruction and yet it's one of the most important. It takes practice - and a dedicated partner - to get it right.

Good luck.

jj

BTW, Moore gives the amount of turn on the Closed Promenade as "Nil." There is actually some slight turning to the left at the end to bring the Lady into closed position.



There are many good Tango videos available both on this site and on YouTube.

Thank you JJ for your answer

I have not a recent video of my tango but when I get it I will post you the link on YouTube.

Yes, you I are right, I think I don't use correctly this Contra Body Movement when I finish my closed promenade.

I will try to do this correctly.

Patrick

"However, I think that the more likely cause of your "jerky" performance is a failure to employ CBM. As your right foot finishes closing at the end the the Promenade (I'm guessing that you mean a Closed Promenade here), your frame - your upper body - should be turning gently in preparation for the first step of the next figure, whatever it may be. Usually, that step (LF) will be forward out of a CP so the turning would be leftward."

Note that only some of the follows for a closed finish utilize CBM, however all of the forward ones place the next step into CBMP.

This is a key point in tango - when the man steps forward with the left foot as in the walks or a link or just about anything else, the step is into CBMP. However, the walks do not utilize CBM. Only the actual left "turn" figures do that - they have CBM to initiate turn, on top of the CBMP default positioning of tango. And when CBM is used for a left turning action, it's use (or the consequences of its absence) becomes apparently relatively late in the step - the initial part of the step is dominated more by the drive forwards into CBMP.

Therefore I would suggest that lack of CBM is probably not the problem behind a general issue with continuing from closed finishes. More likely, the already mentioned lack of balance and (to facilitate it) sufficient "cushion" in the standing leg by both partners to be able to place the next step in the proper position while remaining stable. Tango doesn't really "lower" but it still needs a degree of yielding and knee movement in the standing leg at the initiation of a step.

Any step taken with the left foot in a typical walk (i.e. which curves to the left) uses CBM. Those steps taken with the right foot do not.

If, for some reason, the man should decide to try to curve the walks to the right when he leads the first step with his LF then the CBM would be on those steps taken with the RF. I cannot imagine why a dancer would do so but some leads have unlimited imaginations.

jj

"Any step taken with the left foot in a typical walk (i.e. which curves to the left) uses CBM."

FALSE.

Consult your technique book. Only the turning (as opposed to merely curving) figures utilize CBM. The left foot walk is merely into CBMP.

For additional basic examples of CBMP without CBM in tango, see the progressive side step and the progressive link.

You might also want to read Moore's commentary on CBMP in tango.

For purposes of Patrick's question, what is most significant is that the figures with a step into CBMP but without the CBM of initiating a turn may be quite a bit harder to dance cleanly. This is because the figure depends entirely on grounded stability and yielding support of the standing leg to allow positioning of the left foot. In contrast, when there's an actual turn to the left, and as is also often the case the step becomes a Q rather than a slow, this can do quite a bit to conceal poor placement and stability of that step, hiding it "inside" the turn.

As with many such things, getting to the bottom of the problem is often best accomplished by practicing the most starkly exposed version of it - for example, following the closed promenade or other closed finish with two walk or a link. Or doing not just two walks in succession, but 4, or 8.

Aren't you the same poster who insisted that Moore - along with Hearn - was in error to state that the fifth step of the Natural Spin Turn is taken in CBMP (Waltz)? Aren't you the one who claimed that steps are never taken in CBMP?

Why, yes, I believe that you are.

As Bill Mitchell noted, the first step forward or backward in any figure in Standard uses CBM. Tango is no exception.

jj

PS I've read all of Moore's commentary.

"As Bill Mitchell noted, the first step forward or backward in any figure in Standard uses CBM."

Mr. Mitchel wasn't being very careful if he in fact said that without a "usually" or similar qualifier. Consider the outside change, the rumba cross, the previously mentioned left foot walk, the progressive link, and progressive side step or also the official version of the back corte.

"PS I've read all of Moore's commentary."

Apparently not, for he wrote, "Every normal step forward with the LF and back with the RF by both man and lady will be in Contrary Body Movement Position. It frequently happens that Contrary Body Movement is used on a Contrary Body Movement Position step. This is noted in the descriptions"

Pay attention to the difference between "frequently" and "every" and see that he says the cases with both will be explicitly noted. CBMP is given without CBM for the walks in both Moore and the ISTD volume, and the other two example figures I gave which are treated with ordinary charts rather than paragraph descriptions explicitly say that the CBM is nil.

"Aren't you the one who claimed that steps are never taken in CBMP?"

I said nothing of the sort. On the contrary, what I said is that ordinary CBMP can be achieved only by direction of movement and thus placement, and not by rotation, even if rotation is also present.

and you're right. As usual.


I'm wondering how long it's going to take you to realize that your quotation contradicts your assertion.

Are you seriously trying to claim that CBM and CBMP are mutually exclusive on any given step?

jj

"I'm wondering how long it's going to take you to realize that your quotation contradicts your assertion"

My quotation supports the point I actually made.

"Are you seriously trying to claim that CBM and CBMP are mutually exclusive on any given step?"

I suggested no such ridiculous thing - that's two times in a row you've tried to suggest I said something the exact opposite of what I wrote. In actual fact, around here I'm often the one who often has to point out that cbmp and cbm are not exclusive and often co-occur.

However they do not always co-occur - and that - the fact that Moore used "every" for one as opposed to "frequently" for the other - was my point.

The left foot walk in tango is into cbmp, but cbm is not used.